new whistleblower controversy

**blah3** · 10-03-2019, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by InigoMontoya

The idea that the President is trying to investigate for the good of the country is silly. Plus, why conduct the investigation through Barr and Giuliani instead of the CIA or other formal government agencies?

But really it's all about election law. You may not like it, but most people think what was said in that call was illegal.

Well because we have treaty with Ukraine that we are supposed to help each other investigate corruption. Hence AG, which you know is a formal govt agency. And lol at you’d think the cia investigating would be more on the up and up.

Oh and please tell us what was illegal in the call???

**DitkasSausage** · 10-03-2019, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by InigoMontoya

Reading a transcript before the public has, or anyone in Congress knew about the conversation, is certainly first-hand knowledge of that transcript. Is it first hand knowledge of the phone call in real time? No, but it's certainly first-hand knowledge of evidence that the call took place, and what was said.

1) I answered that above.

2) Election laws are shady and gray on purpose. It's odd that someone can employ someone from a foreign country to investigate someone (Steele dossier), but they can't employ that country's government to do the same (What's in question here). It's also odd that you can give someone hush money (as Trump did), and it's perfectly legal as long as you disclose it (As he did not). That said, I think Trump was using his normal business practices of threatening to withhold what the other person needs to get dirt on Biden. My understanding is that's illegal, but I don't want impeachment for various reasons.

3) Not really. If you content that the Russia investigation was much ado about nothing despite all the smoke, then you can't, with being hypocritical, insist that Biden be investigated..for what? Doing exactly what Trump does with his own kids dealings? also, what's the crime you contend that elder Joe or his son did?

4) Sure, and the President has the right to ask for those, but it gets super shady when it's asked for against his political rival, and there's no active investigation by that country.

Just a quick hitter... to your last point... there was 2 active investigations going on in Ukraine & 1 in the US that involved Ukraine, and part of our treaty with them does require our DOJ to assist. Rudy Gulianni going over there as legal counsel makes sense since this is in connection to an active investigation that involves criminal activity by our intelligence community against Trump personally. Which is why we didn't just send our CIA or FBI over... they are the who is being investigated. You really think Trump would send Peter Strzok to go interview some people to see if he, himself was corrupt?

**Vlad the lad** · 10-03-2019, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by InigoMontoya

That's where this is a question of point of view. It's Trump asking for help in an investigation (which no government agency, foreign or domestic, is currently doing) vs. Trump asking for them to open an investigation to hurt his number 1 political rival in an election. The latter part is wrong for obvious reasons.

There is a formal government investigation going on. That is why trump told the Ukraine president that Barr will be calling. Trump announced this investigation after mueller cleared trump. Barr is on record several times talking about this investigation

Evidence that trump didn’t do anything wrong can be found in the congress actions. They have not voted to open an impeachment inquiry. This is not a formal impeachment inquiry.

**CarrollCoRaven** · 10-03-2019, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Vlad the lad

There is a formal government investigation going on. That is why trump told the Ukraine president that Barr will be calling. Trump announced this investigation after mueller cleared trump. Barr is on record several times talking about this investigation

Evidence that trump didn’t do anything wrong can be found in the congress actions. They have not voted to open an impeachment inquiry. This is not a formal impeachment inquiry.

Yep, Pelosi threw the left a meatless bone.

**Vlad the lad** · 10-03-2019, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by CarrollCoRaven

Yep, Pelosi threw the left a meatless bone.

And with the deception of the media playing Along, we end up with the ignorant in the country that think Trump is being impeached.

**steelerhater** · 10-03-2019, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by InigoMontoya

The idea that the President is trying to investigate for the good of the country is silly. Plus, why conduct the investigation through Barr and Giuliani instead of the CIA or other formal government agencies?

But really it's all about election law. You may not like it, but most people think what was said in that call was illegal.

Well, as we’ve seen, the CIA, FBI, and probably other formal government agencies, are part of the deep state. They take their marching orders from the DNC and would never consider doing something that’s good for the Country.

**BustOfPallas** · 10-03-2019, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by InigoMontoya

That's where this is a question of point of view. It's Trump asking for help in an investigation (which no government agency, foreign or domestic, is currently doing) vs. Trump asking for them to open an investigation to hurt his number 1 political rival in an election. The latter part is wrong for obvious reasons.

It's amazing people can't see that manipulating the FBI and CIA using bogus paid for rubbish from Russia so you can use US agencies to investigate/spy on a political opponent is okay but asking about a corruption probe, a real probe that Biden allegedly shut down, is not.

**Vlad the lad** · 10-03-2019, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by steelerhater

Well, as we’ve seen, the CIA, FBI, and probably other formal government agencies, are part of the deep state. They take their marching orders from the DNC and would never consider doing something that’s good for the Country.

I don’t think the deep state takes orders from the DNC. I think the GOP wants trump out as much as the DNC, but they are allowing the DNC to take the lead. I think the deep state is the establishment. The Clintons, the Bush’s are both part of it. The deep state doesn’t want any outsiders to get power or control.

If the Starbucks owner would have run and an independent, and won, you would have seen the GOP going after him and the DNC would have been helping with the media, behind the screens.

At the end of the day, you have a lot of people that have fought for years to get the power they have. And they won’t give it up easily.

**InigoMontoya** · 10-04-2019, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by DitkasSausage

Just a quick hitter... to your last point... there was 2 active investigations going on in Ukraine & 1 in the US that involved Ukraine, and part of our treaty with them does require our DOJ to assist. Rudy Gulianni going over there as legal counsel makes sense since this is in connection to an active investigation that involves criminal activity by our intelligence community against Trump personally. Which is why we didn't just send our CIA or FBI over... they are the who is being investigated. You really think Trump would send Peter Strzok to go interview some people to see if he, himself was corrupt?

None of those investigations are investigating Joe or Hunter Biden - which was the ask in question. The whole point of the call was to start an investigation up. Currently, there are no active investigations into Joe or Hunter Biden's behavior in the U.S. or Ukraine. Clearly, Rudy was asked, by the President, to talk about Biden and help with an investigation into the Bidens. He's been all over the news saying so for months.

**InigoMontoya** · 10-04-2019, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by steelerhater

Well, as we’ve seen, the CIA, FBI, and probably other formal government agencies, are part of the deep state. They take their marching orders from the DNC and would never consider doing something that’s good for the Country.

Yeah, sure. Clearly, Michael Atkinson, whom Trump appointed himself in 2017, and took over as IGIC in May 2018 is part of the deep state. I mean, duh.

**BustOfPallas** · 10-04-2019, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by InigoMontoya

None of those investigations are investigating Joe or Hunter Biden - which was the ask in question. The whole point of the call was to start an investigation up. Currently, there are no active investigations into Joe or Hunter Biden's behavior in the U.S. or Ukraine. Clearly, Rudy was asked, by the President, to talk about Biden and help with an investigation into the Bidens. He's been all over the news saying so for months.

Inigo, I think it's unseemly but I also think Trump is being attacked constantly. This is him hitting back. If you want a civil election then don't attack, investigate and constantly try to impeach him. He is a counter puncher. Democrats have created this situation of all out war. Nadler was "starting" to impeach Trump weeks before this whistleblower bullsh** popped up. That's just ridiculous. Democrats have lost their minds. They started impeaching Trump on November 8, 2016 and have never stopped.

**InigoMontoya** · 10-04-2019, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by BustOfPallas

Inigo, I think it's unseemly but I also think Trump is being attacked constantly. This is him hitting back. If you want a civil election then don't attack, investigate and constantly try to impeach him. He is a counter puncher. Democrats have created this situation of all out war. Nadler was "starting" to impeach Trump weeks before this whistleblower bullsh** popped up. That's just ridiculous. Democrats have lost their minds. They started impeaching Trump on November 8, 2016 and have never stopped.

Dude. C'mon. Look at what Clinton, Bush II and Obama had to deal with from their opposing parties. None of them ever did something like this. Trump alone is responsible for his actions.