One thing I never understood about fans critical of Joe Flacco.

**usmccharles** · 01-03-2018, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Goode05

He did nothing after leaving here tho

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I'm aware, but wasn't even discussing that.

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**Goode05** · 01-03-2018, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by usmccharles

I'm aware, but wasn't even discussing that.

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Maybe he got paid and just lost some fire too who knows.

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**usmccharles** · 01-03-2018, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Goode05

Maybe he got paid and just lost some fire too who knows.

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Very valid point

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**Greg** · 01-03-2018, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenstatsman

The one thing that really stood out to me this year was Flacco's complete presnap passivity at the line. CAN CAN a couple times a game is about it.

Contrast that to Roethlisberger's performance against us last game. There were points in the 2nd and 3rd quarter where the Ravens D was winning constantly, and getting pressure with blitzes. But Roethlisberger consistently ran up to the line with plenty of time and ran through enough dummy counts to snuff out the Ravens blitzes and call correct protection in the 4th quarter to win the game.

Is it Flacco's fault he gets to the line with 10 seconds or less on the pla clock? Or is it coaching in not getting the players to huddle quickly, the coaches not getting the proper personnel in the game quickly, and the coaches not getting the play in quickly?

I too get frustrated by the late-to-the-line consistency, but this seems to be a coaching issue more than a Flacco issue.

**Greg** · 01-03-2018, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by veritas

What has one got to do with the other? A world beating defense won't improve Flacco's IQ or accuracy or make him any younger.

And Tom Brady isn't covering on 4th and 12 late in the 4th quarter. Flacco got the lead and it was blown, AGAIN. AGAIN!

Flacco is good enough and he is better than the Pees defense we saw blow crucial leads time and time again.

Watching the game right now on DVR. The first drive, two dropped passes in a row.

**Trackmaster** · 01-03-2018, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Desert Raven

Flacco makes more than Aaron Rodgers. That's not Flacco's fault, but people expect him to elevate his game based on his contract. He doesn't have a lot of help. Hardly any. He makes the big money, but doesn't seem like he's all the way invested. Aloof almost.

Correct. Conceivably, Flacco could have more help around him if he didn't make as much. Boldin and Torrey Smith were not re-signed largely due to financial matters. But as you were saying, he just wanted what the market would bear for him. Can't blame him.

**purple_city39** · 01-03-2018, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Trackmaster

Correct. Conceivably, Flacco could have more help around him if he didn't make as much. Boldin and Torrey Smith were not re-signed largely due to financial matters. But as you were saying, he just wanted what the market would bear for him. Can't blame him.

This is one of the most annoying things I read on various Ravens forums, because it's BS. Flacco makes comparable money to Ryan, Roethlisberger, Carr, Rodgers, etc. How much do their teams spend on WRs in addition to highly paid QBs? Hell, I'll throw in o-line too. This will all be cap hits for 2017

Falcons - $27M on QBs, $28M on WRs, $26M on o-line. $54M on the people that will help their QB.

Steelers - $21M on QB, $17M on WR (Juju and Bryant on rookie deals), and $39M on o-line. $56M on people that will help their QB

Raiders - $17M on QB, $21M on WR, $43M on o-line. $64M on players that will help their QB

Packers - $21M on QBs, $28M on WRs, $26M on o-line. $54M on players that will help their QB.

Ravens - $26M on QBs, $16M on WRs, $24M on o-line. $40M on players that will help their QB.......BUT let's add a disclaimer here. Of that $40M, $17.5M of it was Yanda and Maclin, aka a guard on IR since week 3 and a bum ass WR. So Joe really only had $23M worth of help all season, which is less than any of these teams invested in just the o-line.

If the Ravens want to add quality WRs, they'll add quality WRs. The problem is they choose note to because they don't value offense that high. The Ravens were only in the top half of spending at one offensive position group (not including QB) and that was o-line. They were #16. A huge part of that is Yanda, the rest is having to sign so many guys because others were on IR or retired while having a cap hit still hitting the cap, not because they invested in the group.

Bonus: Before anyone points out that the Ravens have the highest is QB salary caps, I present to you the following teams:

Cardinals - $29M on QB, $20M on WRs, $29M on o-line. $49M to help their QB, more than the Ravens

Skins - $27M on QB, $11M on Wrs, $35M on o-line. $46M to help out their QB, more than the Ravens.

The only team that spent more on QB salaries than the Ravens that did NOT spend more on WRs and o-line was Miami. So stop with Flacco's contract, because many GMs find a way to get talent around their high priced QB.

P.S. The Falcons, Steelers, Raiders, Packers, Skins, and Cardinals all also SPENT MORE on defense than the Ravens did. Every last one of these teams spent more on helping their QB AND spent more on defense. How the hell is that possible??? This last piece even surprised me

EDIT: The defensive side makes sense actually. Baltimore had a lot of people on the first year of contracts and the Ravens notoriously backload contracts. The defensive cap hit is set to jump up an additional $36M in 2018

**thetacker** · 01-03-2018, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Goode05

HE WON A FUCKING SUPER BOWLSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Talent issues aside, they won a Super Bowl because Ray Lewis was an inspirational leader, who wouldn't accept anything but the best performance from everyone, 100% of the time. There's nobody in sight to lead this team in similar fashion, either in coaching or on the field, all the direct result of the collection of milquetoasts that have been assembled by weakling Harbaugh.

**DeltaRaven** · 01-03-2018, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Trackmaster

Correct. Conceivably, Flacco could have more help around him if he didn't make as much. Boldin and Torrey Smith were not re-signed largely due to financial matters. But as you were saying, he just wanted what the market would bear for him. Can't blame him.

Torrey I could see, but trading Boldin was completely political on Harbaugh's part to assert his control of the locker room. Go back and look at what we used that "savings" on. Michael Huff, Chris Canty, and Marcus Spears

Biggest mistake in this frachise's history.

**The Wizard of OZ** · 01-03-2018, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by thetacker

Talent issues aside, they won a Super Bowl because Ray Lewis was an inspirational leader, who wouldn't accept anything but the best performance from everyone, 100% of the time. There's nobody in sight to lead this team in similar fashion, either in coaching or on the field, all the direct result of the collection of milquetoasts that have been assembled by weakling Harbaugh.

I don't think it was as simple as Ray not accepting anything but the best. When a great player/players says he's retiring in one case and in another case I may not be here with you guys next year (Reed), I think a lot of guys rally around that. Knowing that you're possibly losing two cornerstones of a franchise that have mentored you, guys rally around that kind of stuff and do their best to send those guys out a certain way.

**Goode05** · 01-03-2018, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Trackmaster

Correct. Conceivably, Flacco could have more help around him if he didn't make as much. Boldin and Torrey Smith were not re-signed largely due to financial matters. But as you were saying, he just wanted what the market would bear for him. Can't blame him.

Boldin was TRADED because he wouldn't take a pay cut that's not resigning and Joe's cap hit that year WAS LESS THEN HIS PREVIOUS CAP HIT UNDER HIS ROOKIE CONTRACT. So how does that make any sense? Torrey got over paid and although Ozzie used his money on more Defense Torrey was not worth it

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**Money227** · 01-03-2018, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by purple_city39

This is one of the most annoying things I read on various Ravens forums, because it's BS. Flacco makes comparable money to Ryan, Roethlisberger, Carr, Rodgers, etc. How much do their teams spend on WRs in addition to highly paid QBs? Hell, I'll throw in o-line too. This will all be cap hits for 2017

Falcons - $27M on QBs, $28M on WRs, $26M on o-line. $54M on the people that will help their QB.

Steelers - $21M on QB, $17M on WR (Juju and Bryant on rookie deals), and $39M on o-line. $56M on people that will help their QB

Raiders - $17M on QB, $21M on WR, $43M on o-line. $64M on players that will help their QB

Packers - $21M on QBs, $28M on WRs, $26M on o-line. $54M on players that will help their QB.

Ravens - $26M on QBs, $16M on WRs, $24M on o-line. $40M on players that will help their QB.......BUT let's add a disclaimer here. Of that $40M, $17.5M of it was Yanda and Maclin, aka a guard on IR since week 3 and a bum ass WR. So Joe really only had $23M worth of help all season, which is less than any of these teams invested in just the o-line.

If the Ravens want to add quality WRs, they'll add quality WRs. The problem is they choose note to because they don't value offense that high. The Ravens were only in the top half of spending at one offensive position group (not including QB) and that was o-line. They were #16. A huge part of that is Yanda, the rest is having to sign so many guys because others were on IR or retired while having a cap hit still hitting the cap, not because they invested in the group.

Bonus: Before anyone points out that the Ravens have the highest is QB salary caps, I present to you the following teams:

Cardinals - $29M on QB, $20M on WRs, $29M on o-line. $49M to help their QB, more than the Ravens

Skins - $27M on QB, $11M on Wrs, $35M on o-line. $46M to help out their QB, more than the Ravens.

The only team that spent more on QB salaries than the Ravens that did NOT spend more on WRs and o-line was Miami. So stop with Flacco's contract, because many GMs find a way to get talent around their high priced QB.

P.S. The Falcons, Steelers, Raiders, Packers, Skins, and Cardinals all also SPENT MORE on defense than the Ravens did. Every last one of these teams spent more on helping their QB AND spent more on defense. How the hell is that possible??? This last piece even surprised me

EDIT: The defensive side makes sense actually. Baltimore had a lot of people on the first year of contracts and the Ravens notoriously backload contracts. The defensive cap hit is set to jump up an additional $36M in 2018

I think it's pretty clear that there is a confidence in Roethlisberger, Ryan and Rodgers being consistent enough to carry their teams through 16-game seasons that just isn't there with Flacco. Whether or not you agree with the Ravens' organization, it is what it is.