New Rules

**Ed and Ray** · 05-28-2018, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by mmi16

Seems as if those that are stridently against the players 1st Amendment rights would really rather live in Russia where they know what Putin wants them to think and be done with all this Free Speech business.

No shit,lol. Funny thing is when those same people go through some unjust situations, they want people to be sympathetic to what they are going through but yet, they not giving that same sympathy to others.

**boller4president** · 05-28-2018, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by mmi16

Seems as if those that are stridently against the players 1st Amendment rights would really rather live in Russia where they know what Putin wants them to think and be done with all this Free Speech business.

I realize liberals are new to this whole embracing the constitution thing but there is no 1st Amendment issue when it comes to private businesses.

Let's also not pretend that these players don't have a multitude of other platforms where they could make their voices heard if they so choose. They can snap their fingers and appear on pretty much any AM sports radio station. They have twitter. Facebook. Instagram. They have left leaning cable news stations like CNN and MSNBC who have to wall to wall coverage everytime there is an incident with an officer.

Here's the other reality I don't get politics from my UPS guy, or my telco guy, or even my neighbor kids who I pay to mow the lawn. Why do you think that is? They recognize that I'm paying them to do a job not to offer their unsolicited opinions. Well when I goto a football game I goto watch football not watch players disrespect our anthem and our flag. You may not care or are down with the cause but the NFL realizes that alienating half of it's customer base (actually more then half as sports fans lean conservative) is dumb business. They have the right to protect their business just like they had the right to fully embrace the kneeling movement when it happened I called their actions at the time despicable and still honestly not forgiven them for it (I think if owners think this decision will cause fans to come flocking back they are mistaken).

**boller4president** · 05-28-2018, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by RockvilleRaven

Why can’t people work to make something better? Why do they have to leave? I never understood that argument.

Freedom of speech is a touchy subject. Just because I have the right to say something doesn’t mean you have to like it. But, we are mixing up 2 subjects. 1) unequal treatment. 2) how do we protest to make social change.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We all want to work to make America better standing for the anthem and flag doesn't mean you believe America is perfect. Where did that nonsense come from?

This also isn't a freedom of speech issue. They are at their place of work. Workplaces limit speech all the time try to say swearwords at your workplace. I used to work at a fortune 500 and got warned one time for saying something is gay.

Was my freedom of speech rights being violated? Give me a break.

**Shutdown#21** · 05-28-2018, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by boller4president

I realize liberals are new to this whole embracing the constitution thing but there is no 1st Amendment issue when it comes to private businesses.

Let's also not pretend that these players don't have a multitude of other platforms where they could make their voices heard if they so choose. They can snap their fingers and appear on pretty much any AM sports radio station. They have twitter. Facebook. Instagram. They have left leaning cable news stations like CNN and MSNBC who have to wall to wall coverage everytime there is an incident with an officer.

Here's the other reality I don't get politics from my UPS guy, or my telco guy, or even my neighbor kids who I pay to mow the lawn. Why do you think that is? They recognize that I'm paying them to do a job not to offer their unsolicited opinions. Well when I goto a football game I goto watch football not watch players disrespect our anthem and our flag. You may not care or are down with the cause but the NFL realizes that alienating half of it's customer base (actually more then half as sports fans lean conservative) is dumb business. They have the right to protect their business just like they had the right to fully embrace the kneeling movement when it happened I called their actions at the time despicable and still honestly not forgiven them for it (I think if owners think this decision will cause fans to come flocking back they are mistaken).

I love how you compare your Job to the NFL, I don’t remember my Job playing the anthem before I start my shift. Or do you stand when they play the anthem on the TV? And also did you say anything to the teachers in Oklahoma postesting during school hours while students are learning? Yeah I thought so.

**GOTA** · 05-28-2018, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

I don't think the NFL is thinking this through properly.

I see this as the best possible compromise.

No way you are going to make both sides happy. This is a good middle ground.

**Shutdown#21** · 05-28-2018, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

I see this as the best possible compromise.

No way you are going to make both sides happy. This is a good middle ground.

How is that a compromise? when it is a unilateral decision between the owners?

**boller4president** · 05-28-2018, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Shutdown#21

I love how you compare your Job to the NFL, I don’t remember my Job playing the anthem before I start my shift. Or do you stand when they play the anthem on the TV? And also did you say anything to the teachers in Oklahoma postesting during school hours while students are learning? Yeah I thought so.

Do you lower your head in prayer when you drive by church on sunday? The NFL has given the players a choice you can either attend and show the anthem and our flag the proper respect or you can stay inside the lockerroom.

**The Excellector** · 05-28-2018, 02:47 PM

Until somebody tells me that Nate Boyer should be ashamed of himself for suggesting such disrespect to the flag by kneeling, I'm not taking any of this sanctimonious bullshit seriously.

**GOTA** · 05-28-2018, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Shutdown#21

How is that a compromise? when it is a unilateral decision between the owners?

It's not a compromise between the owners and the players. It's a compromise between the fans who took one side or the other. The NFL is entertainment. They needed to find a way to keep their customers. Many of those who stopped watching or going to games will now return.

I know in my family my father and brother who are Patriots fans haven't watched a game since the Ravens kneeled in London even though their team was in the Super Bowl. Both are now going to start watching again.

**The Excellector** · 05-28-2018, 03:30 PM

I get what GOTA is saying. Look, we can argue the hypocrisy of it, the sanctimony of it and we have. However, at the end of the day, it had A impact. I don't know about the percentages, but the mere sight of it made an impact. So, they tried to address the sight of it.

The NFL started having players on the field for the National Anthem every game after participating in Paid Patriotism. If fans didn't know then, they know now and still aren't going to boycott. The NFL has merchandise on the website, right now, with the American Flag all over the place. The U.S. Flag, is not, is not, IS NOT, supposed to be placed on merchandise to be sold. Period. Flag code. Fans who didn't know then, know now and they still won't boycott. The original suggestion to kneel came from a Green Beret, who even went so far as to say that kneeling is the most respectful sign you can show to the flag. Fans who didn't know then know now. The information is out there. Nobody has called Nate Boyer to task. Nobody has shamed him for suggesting such "disrespect". Nobody has shamed him for suggesting that the players not "Act like adults".

However, no matter how ignorant it is, no matter how revisionist it is, no matter how sanctimonious it is, as much as it makes me roll my eyes to say this, it hurt the bottom line. While I think the product on the field has hurt the bottom line more than anything, I'm not going to try to put percentages to it. So, this is what they did.

**GOTA** · 05-28-2018, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

I get what GOTA is saying. Look, we can argue the hypocrisy of it, the sanctimony of it and we have. However, at the end of the day, it had A impact. I don't know about the percentages, but the mere sight of it made an impact. So, they tried to address the sight of it.

Yup. This has nothing to do with fair or right. It's about what is best for the business.

We had a minor version of this last year at my company. An employee was pissed at Trump and started wearing an American flag pin upside down. I don't think most people even noticed because it was very small. Unfortunately a client did and the employee explained that he was mad at the President and it was his way of expressing it. We were able to keep the client by removing that guy from the job however it was a tough sell. That would have cost us about $150,000 in revenue. This guy was told to wear the pin right side up if he was to wear it or he would be fired. NY is an at will state and he absolutely could have been fired for that.

They reminded everyone in our staff meeting that this is a business and not the place for political opinions. He got the message as did everyone else and we haven't had a problem since. The NFL is trying to come up with something that is going to keep the most fans in the game. Service your customers is the #1 goal of any business.

**Real Fan Dan** · 05-28-2018, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

It's not a compromise between the owners and the players. It's a compromise between the fans who took one side or the other. The NFL is entertainment. They needed to find a way to keep their customers. Many of those who stopped watching or going to games will now return.

I know in my family my father and brother who are Patriots fans haven't watched a game since the Ravens kneeled in London even though their team was in the Super Bowl. Both are now going to start watching again.

I hope you are right GOTA. It's terrible seeing thousands of empty seats and knowing they are already paid for. It's terrible hearing your friends who own PSL's say "It's too late - I'm done with the NFL". Many feel an apology is the only way to make things right, but they know it won't come. I know a lot of you guys don't attend games, but that was the reality last year. 12 players of a 53 man squad knelt in London. No Ravens player has taken a knee since London. That is a success for our team and an indication of mutual understanding between our players, coaches and fans. I'm sure everyone is aware of the inequalities the players have been protesting. It's been covered Nationally, Internationally, Every night on the news! I wish that the new NFL regulations were unnecessary - that common sense would prevail - but at this point any further kneeling by NFL players can easily be seen as rubbing it in the faces of a large percentage of the people who provide the very income that pays their salaries. I don't think some of us are aware of just how widespread this is - especially among those fans who go to the games. I hope this helps fans decide to come back to the game we love.

Time to move on. Let's show respect for one another. Play ball!