Blacks let the Greens hear it loudly Fire Greg Roman

[Ravenous1]

NFL Offensive Points Per Drive, 2019-22 (so far):

#	Team	Points	Drives	TotalPPD
1	Chiefs	1543	567	2.721
2	Ravens	1511	617	2.449
3	Packers	1427	589	2.423
4	Buccaneers	1551	659	2.354
5	Bills	1422	605	2.350
T6	Saints	1444	631	2.288
T6	Titans	1361	601	2.265
8	Chargers	1329	589	2.256
9	Seahawks	1406	626	2.246
10	Cowboys	1400	625	2.240
11	Vikings	1372	613	2.238
12	Cardinals	1340	607	2.208
13	49ers	1369	623	2.197
14	Raiders	1269	579	2.192
15	Indy	1286	595	2.161
16	Patriots	1262	598	2.110
17	Rams	1269	612	2.074
18	Browns	1228	598	2.054
19	Falcons	1204	594	2.027
20	Eagles	1244	615	2.023
21	Lions	1162	599	1.940
22	Bengals	1197	625	1.915
23	Texans	1120	587	1.908
24	Dolphins	1114	625	1.782
25	Bears	1036	601	1.724
26	Panthers	1066	622	1.714
27	Broncos	1028	610	1.685
28	Steelers	1098	652	1.684
29	Washington	1030	623	1.653
30	Jaguars	976	599	1.629
31	Giants	989	612	1.616
32	Jets	922	635	1.452

We've been the second-best scoring offense (per drive) in the entire NFL, after the Chiefs, since Roman became OC. Third in total points (Buccs, Chiefs).


Rank by year in key offensive metrics:

Year	PtsPerDrive	OffenseDVOA	PassDVOA
2019	1	1	1
2020	9	11	17
2021	18	17	16
2022*	6	5	5

* thru eight games

The only year out of the top ten was when the whole team got injured.
With Lamar & Ronnie Stanley both healthy, consistently top-five.



News flash: if your goal is to score points and win games, Greg Roman might actually be a good Offensive Coordinator.

I'd love to see how those stats look if you take out 2019. I have a feeling they would tell a very different story. This offense was fantastic for year. It's a gimmick and in the NFL, defenses figure those out.

[WrongBaldy]

seems like YDKB is fitting even though i dont like it

[Ravenous1]

No, YOU suck.

If Lamar is healthy and on the field, the Ravens make the playoffs. That's with Roman. Every year. Lamar gets hurt and goes out, the Ravens lose.

The Run game with top run QB, all time, Lamar, wins games.

You don't realize this. The Ravens passed and punted all first half and scored 3 TDs in a row when they ran.

Last week people were whining about the Ravens "booooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiinnnnngggggg"
run first win.

I DISAGREE. YOU ARE WRONG.

I liked how in the 2nd half, the successful half, there were a variety of different run plays. Many teams (not the Ravens) have only the one run threat, the rb, if the defense is able to stop that limited run offense, they give up and pass more. If a team has multiple run threats it's difficult to stop all them. Lamar at QB, a number of options at RB including the big back Gus Edwards who has done so well, including 2018, when he was running for 100+ a game w/ Lamar also running for a lot, going 6-1 in the regular season, motionback speedsters like Duvernay, and Bateman also maybe, 2 of the 5 fastest ball carriers in the NFL are those guys so far this year. Also the bigs Ricard and Andrews have been carrying the ball. Maybe we'll see Faalele out there, maybe his job is to push Ricard in a short yardage situation? Point is, the more you can march down the field using any of Lamar, RB, speedster and big, all running, the less you need to use passing at all, and within the context of very effective running, limited passing becomes very successful. We see it over and over, like in this last game.

Running works, we see it again yesterday.

But you are choosing to whine. I'm not neutral on this. Top running QB running often, makes wins. Hey, look Jalen Hurts is 6-0 right now. The 2 teams I'm focusing on, again this year, are the teams with the running QBs. The Giants are winning, 6-1, Daniel Jones is on track for over 700 yards rushing. Running QBs running often does work.

I am here to see that, and the wins it brings. I am not in favor of trying to force passes in when it's not necessary to do so and I'm not in favor of people here thinking that it's a good idea to force passes in when it's not necessary. And whining whining whining after wins. Hey the thing I like works a lot better than the thing you like, I don't want more of the ineffective stuff you like, I want more of the effective stuff I like, I'm here to see that exact effective QB and other run stuff.

You want exciting? Put Oweh in the backfield. 6'5 259 and 4.36 40. If you don't want that, be happy with the good selection of run options the Ravens can put forward, because it has gotten them to a solid 5-3 with games against Allen, Brady, Burrow and Tua behind them, and Andy Dalton (or Taysom Hill), Baker Mayfield (or Philip Walker), Trevor Lawrence next up. Expect runs and expect wins.

Here is the thing....remind me of how many teams have run their way to a SB Trophy in the past 10 years. I thought the point of this exercise (football) is to actually have a chance at winning a Lombardi trophy. 5 years into this experiment we have not been to an AFC Championship game nevermind a SB. I'll be here waiting for you to remind of that team that ran their way to the Championship in the modern NFL. It's a pass-first league with rules written to encourage that. This system can run roughshod over the poor sisters of the NFL but it comes up pretty short against the best of best who have tools and the means to exploit how the game encourages passing. If your going to argue that point, please remind me of the playoff success this system has had.

[Shrubbs]

Here is the thing....remind me of how many teams have run their way to a SB Trophy in the past 10 years.

IMO this is a take that I think is really flawed.

I think there's some merit to the argument that passing teams are winning football games, but you have to understand that like 90% or more of teams in the NFL are passing teams. It's like putting 9 lions and 1 wolf in a pasture with a sheep and asking why it's always a lion that gets the food.

Here's what I think:
1) If you want to win consistently in the NFL you need to be able to run the ball and pass the ball. The Buccaneers lost their ability to run and they've completely collapsed. The best teams in the NFL consistently do both well.
2) The Ravens are capable of both running and passing the ball well, and that will only get better when the offense is back to full strength. Down Andrews and Bateman I'd be very annoyed if they came out pass happy in H2 of the Bucs game. Pass happy got them 3 points in H1. Do what it takes to win the game.
3) The NFL is a constantly evolving strategic game of taking advantage of trends, market inefficiencies, and dominant strategy. What works for one team might not work for another. It also might not work for that same team the next year. As the variables shift different things become viable. Most teams build their defenses to stop the Chiefs or the Bengals, not the Ravens because their style of play is rarer.

[JimZipCode]

seems like YDKB is fitting even though i dont like it

?

“You Don't Know Ball?”

[JimZipCode]

you mean Lamar is a good QB?

So is Roman the driving force of the scoring or Lamar?

How do we separate it out?

“This game always has been and always will be about the players.”

— Clarence Brooks

Coaches don't do shit without players. Not a damn thing.

• Bill Belichick's playoff record without Tom Brady is, I think, 1-1.
• Bill Walsh never won a playoff game without Joe Montana.
• Over in basketball, Red Auerbach never won a thing without Hall Of Famers on his roster. Had more Hall Of Fame players on his teams than anybody in any sport, ever.

I'm not sure what the right way to phrase this is: Greg Roman has done more without Lamar than Bills Walsh & Belichick did without their HOF QBs. No, that's not right: more like, a higher percent of Roman's career accomplishments have come without Lamar than that of the Two Bills without Montana/Brady. Does that make sense? A MUCH smaller overall pie than either of those guys, but a bigger share of it without Lamar than the other guys without their star QB? Anyway:

• Coached Alex Smith to his then-career-high passer rating of 90 (top ten) and a playoff win in 2011
• Coached Kaepernick to a 98 passer rating (7th in the league) and the Super Bowl in 2012
• Coached Kaepernick to another top-ten passer rating and another conf champship appearance in 2013
• Coached Tyrod to the Pro Bowl in 2015

Obvsly Lamar is THE driving force. But Roman has proven to be a capable OC everywhere he's been.

[JimZipCode]

You want exciting? Put Oweh in the backfield.

Might as well. Could be the only backfield he sees this season.

Brutal.

[BcRaven]

Brutal.

LOL, Jimmy, blueridgemtnman's post gave me a real belly laugh... Bc

[JimZipCode]

I'd love to see how those stats look if you take out 2019. I have a feeling they would tell a very different story.

Forget 2019. We're top 5 in DVOA this year

Current Ravens ranks in some offensive metrics:

Pts per drive	6th
Pts per game	6th
Offense DVOA	5th
Pass DVOA	5th
EPA per play	7th
EPA per dropback	8th?

I'm not positive about that last stat. According to this graphic from PFF, Ravens are one of only two teams (with the Eagles) above the 75th pctile in both dropback and called-run EPA-per-pay:

Ravens and Eagles the only team in the top 8 in both phases, pass and run. They tweeted that out on Tuesday, so it's from before the Tampa game (thru 7 weeks).

But! I got a different (lower) rank for Ravens EPA per dropback when I used RBSDM dotcom to look it up. So, take that one with a question mark.



Not a single one of those stats is a rushing stat. Obvsly the scoring and “total offense” stats include contributions from the run game. But none of them are rushing stats.

[JimZipCode]

Here is the thing – remind me of how many teams have run their way to a SB Trophy in the past 10 years.

2013 Seahawks.

2014 Seahawks failed to win the SB by not giving the ball to Marshawn.

2015 Broncos won with Peyton's arm having fallen off and Brock Osweiler sucking. They rode their defense and run game.

2017 Eagles won on the back of an all-RPO game plan. They didn't punt at all in the SB! Their leading receiver on the year was TE Zach Ertz: they had no pass-catcher with a thousand yards. Most-similar to a Greg Roman offense of all these teams.

2018 Patriots won in a year when Tom Brady's arm was unhealthy and he threw for only 29 TDs. Two-headed RB committee of Sony Michel & James Whitehead. Another team with no pass-catcher near a thousand yards: they had one guy with 850 (Edelman) and three guys new 700, incl Gronk at 680.


So: about half in the past 10 years. Four teams that actually won plus another that should've & would've if they'd had their RB run the ball one more time.

[JonAB]

2013 Seahawks.

2014 Seahawks failed to win the SB by not giving the ball to Marshawn.

2015 Broncos won with Peyton's arm having fallen off and Brock Osweiler sucking. They rode their defense and run game.

2017 Eagles won on the back of an all-RPO game plan. They didn't punt at all in the SB! Their leading receiver on the year was TE Zach Ertz: they had no pass-catcher with a thousand yards. Most-similar to a Greg Roman offense of all these teams.

2018 Patriots won in a year when Tom Brady's arm was unhealthy and he threw for only 29 TDs. Two-headed RB committee of Sony Michel & James Whitehead. Another team with no pass-catcher near a thousand yards: they had one guy with 850 (Edelman) and three guys new 700, incl Gronk at 680.


So: about half in the past 10 years. Four teams that actually won plus another that should've & would've if they'd had their RB run the ball one more time.

Lol. More awful analysis man.

2013 Seahawks I’ll give you, I guess, but I’ll point out it was a highly efficient passing offense that ranked 6th in DVOA on the year so maybe I shouldn’t give it to you. Very balanced offense overall. Edit; on further review they only had -2.2% Rush DVOA throughout the playoffs. I take it back, I ain’t giving this one to you either.

Don’t care about 2014 as they didn’t win the super bowl, not even looking up the stats.

2015 Broncos only ran for 1700ish yard and 4.2 yards per attempt, good for like 17th in the league in rushing. Like what!?! I wouldnt look into their rush DVOA numbers on the season or the playoffs because they are very bad.

2017 Eagles were built around Carson wentz arm. When he went down they went to an unconventional offense built around RPOs, yes, but they were quite pass heavy with them. They only averaged 100 yards rushing in their playoff games before busting out 165 in the super bowl… but make no mistake, that Super bowl was built off a Flacco esque super bowl run by Nick Foles and not by the rushing offense. 83.8% Pass DVOA in the playoffs (wow) to a -5.3% DVOA rushing offense. They absolutely did not rush their way to a Super Bowl.

And 2018 Pats lmao. The only reason you have low numbers on receivers is because of injuries. Their run to the super bowl always was Brady/Edelman/Gronk. Clearly a team that set up the run through the pass and not the other way around. This is a hilarious example. Even mentioning Michel and White is silly lmao. Ya teams were definitely game planning to shut down that vaunted rushing offense and not fucking tom Brady and co. Honestly using DVOA numbers this is actually youre *closest* example, although it was still clearly the passing offense that drove them, but pretending that a late Brady team won the Super Bowl because of their rushing is v funny to me. Definition of YDKB

[JonAB]

IMO this is a take that I think is really flawed.

I think there's some merit to the argument that passing teams are winning football games, but you have to understand that like 90% or more of teams in the NFL are passing teams. It's like putting 9 lions and 1 wolf in a pasture with a sheep and asking why it's always a lion that gets the food.

Here's what I think:
1) If you want to win consistently in the NFL you need to be able to run the ball and pass the ball. The Buccaneers lost their ability to run and they've completely collapsed. The best teams in the NFL consistently do both well.
2) The Ravens are capable of both running and passing the ball well, and that will only get better when the offense is back to full strength. Down Andrews and Bateman I'd be very annoyed if they came out pass happy in H2 of the Bucs game. Pass happy got them 3 points in H1. Do what it takes to win the game.
3) The NFL is a constantly evolving strategic game of taking advantage of trends, market inefficiencies, and dominant strategy. What works for one team might not work for another. It also might not work for that same team the next year. As the variables shift different things become viable. Most teams build their defenses to stop the Chiefs or the Bengals, not the Ravens because their style of play is rarer.

This is good analysis.

Most importantly, you generally have to be good at both. Ravens passing game is good when its on but the consistency has to be concerning to most. If the get the consistency down to a more palatable level then I think this team can certainly compete for the Super Bowl.