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  1. #349

    Re: Kaepernick Protesting American Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

    There is this thing called per capita. Which is what I believe he is protesting, I am not gong into politics on this forum anymore as people are unwilling to be wrong, and I learned long ago to never argue with people who are unwilling to be wrong.
    But the 'whole' story involves more than per capita as well. If you take into account the rate of crime, especially violent crime, that the black community commits, well the numbers are equal.
    If you also look at the fact that hispanic officers are most likely to kill an unarmed person, and then black officers, and then white offices the least often it undermines the idea that cops are targeting minorities.





  2. #350

    Re: Kaepernick Protesting American Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by lovefootball View Post
    LOL, don't you know. It's pretty easy to understand.
    Yup. It was pretty easy. I understood it as...

    two guys, one or both of whom who may be black are talking about issues of race, social justice, and fake patriotism, so I, lovefootball, who clearly interprets any critique of America as a personal insult, will post a link to black soldiers that have earned the CMoH, in order to show them that black people have died for this country, and therefore they should stfu.

    That's how I understood it.

    As such, I'd expect that from someone nowhere nearly as learned and experienced as I thought you were, lovie.


    And the link...yeah, it's a bit familiar, but other sites do it better. I usually read a few of the citations (as well as some from the other branches) from other sites before heading over to Arlington for the changing of the guard sometime over Thanksgiving weekend.
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 09-19-2016 at 08:52 AM.
    "The Ravens are not taking Jimmy Smith at 26!" -- Me, the day before the 2011 Draft

    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the 2015 Draft

    Missed it by That Much: The story of 'Get Smart' and the modern day Baltimore Ravens

    @BigPlayReceiver





  3. #351

    Re: Kaepernick Protesting American Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by lovefootball View Post
    Your right and wrong. This short diatribe is a surprise. Normally it's a longwinded response. Just wing it, seems you've done that in several responses. I believe the words used were " spewed and BS" '
    My words actually.


    The standards that the USA was built on is being torn apart.
    What are these standards? Are you sure that they are gone?

    No one wants to recognize the sacrifice made for the liberties people have now, SMH.
    Gross hyperbole; and many who sacrificed didn't actual receive any liberties at all. The majority of names at the very link that you posted--among the same people I try to honor each year--fall into this pool.

    America hasn't the high quality standard it use to have. Everything is open to being called useless and unnecessary.
    Again, gross hyperbole.
    "The Ravens are not taking Jimmy Smith at 26!" -- Me, the day before the 2011 Draft

    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the 2015 Draft

    Missed it by That Much: The story of 'Get Smart' and the modern day Baltimore Ravens

    @BigPlayReceiver





  4. #352

    Re: Kaepernick Protesting American Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    My words actually.


    What are these standards? Are you sure that they are gone?



    Gross hyperbole; and many who sacrificed didn't actual receive any liberties at all. The majority of names at the very link that you posted--among the same people I try to honor each year--fall into this pool.



    Again, gross hyperbole.
    Your opinions, which by the way , I disagree with.





  5. #353

    Re: Kaepernick Protesting American Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Yup. It was pretty easy. I understood it as...

    two guys, one or both of whom who may be black are talking about issues of race, social justice, and fake patriotism, so I, lovefootball, who clearly interprets any critique of America as a personal insult, will post a link to black soldiers that have earned the CMoH, in order to show them that black people have died for this country, and therefore they should stfu.

    That's how I understood it.

    As such, I'd expect that from someone nowhere nearly as learned and experienced as I thought you were, lovie.


    And the link...yeah, it's a bit familiar, but other sites do it better. I usually read a few of the citations (as well as some from the other branches) from other sites before heading over to Arlington for the changing of the guard sometime over Thanksgiving weekend.
    Man, you're some kind of different cat, . Far out, LOL





  6. #354

    Re: Kaepernick Protesting American Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    But the 'whole' story involves more than per capita as well. If you take into account the rate of crime, especially violent crime, that the black community commits, well the numbers are equal.
    If you also look at the fact that hispanic officers are most likely to kill an unarmed person, and then black officers, and then white offices the least often it undermines the idea that cops are targeting minorities.

    Sure and you can argue stats all day long, and when stats are the only crux of an argument, it will be endless due to the ambiguity and credibility of the source. That said I am not interested in the political angle on this, just CK and what he is protesting.

    I understand your stats, and they very well could be valid, but that has nothing to do with this protest really. He is protesting what he feels is an injustice and he has the right to do so, and I dont think he should be chastised for it, and I don't like veterans being used as a shield for it. I don't think the fact that their is injustice in the world can really be argued. I don't think the percentage really matters, just that it is happening. I understand that we do not live in a perfect world, and a world without mistakes is not feasible. That said CK has decided he has seen enough and is saying something.

    To me here is why I am good with him protesting, my checklist so to speak.

    Does he have the right ? Yes
    Have black people been unfairly shot? Yes
    Is that something worth speaking on? Yes
    Is he doing it peacefully? Yes

    So with all of that being a yes, why should he not be doing it ? Why should he be punished ? Now if you want to bring up the fact that others are shot as well, or white people are not inherently evil, then yes, that is true to be sure. So the same checklist in my mind would apply to you.

    Do you have the right? Yes
    Have white people been unfairly characterized in some cases? Yes
    Is that something worth speaking on? Yes

    The only question left is would you do it peacefully? If the answer is yes, then in my mind, you have every right and should face no repercussions.

    Are white people as a whole being misrepresented sometimes? Are some black people unfairly shot sometimes? Yeah. I mean both issues are worth speaking on, but it is up to you to protest whatever it is you feel warrants it. So if you have a problem with CK not telling the whole story or choosing to only represent a single side (his right, and he is not wrong) then you have the right to tell your side (your right, and you are not wrong). Regardless of the statistics the real crux of this being a simple question. Have black people died at the hands of police, and unfairly so. I think Philando Castille laid that to rest as he was laid to rest, and the black behavioral therapist in miami as well. So if those both happened why is it such a provocative gesture for someone to say that black people are being unfairly shot, which is what is being said.





  7. #355

    Re: Kaepernick Protesting American Flag

    [QUOTE=lovefootball;1133178]
    Your right and wrong. This short diatribe is a surprise. Normally it's a longwinded response. Just wing it, seems you've done that in several responses. I believe the words used were " spewed and BS" '
    I like being thorough and won't apologize for it, not that you are asking. I can be overly thorough, but I digress. I am interested in what "spewed and BS" line you are talking about.

    The standards that the USA was built on is being torn apart. Not sure where this country is in 10 years . No one wants to recognize the sacrifice made for the liberties people have now, SMH.
    Good, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were and are amazing documents that were transcendent for their time, but we would not use them to build a country today. Our nation was built on the standards of a caste system, and slaves being an acceptable part of society, as well as the castigation of women, deplorable child labor laws by today's standards, and economies that were founded on the supposition of inherited wealth, and the tides were controlled by god as religion was the scientific law of the land. I am glad all of that is changing, as it should.

    If you are talking about the 50's then that is just as bad with foreign policy taking a massive dump with the advent of popularized false flags such as the cold war and the red scare, which would bleed into the 60's and the Nam era, unilateral attacks on countries in the name of democracy which has spawned all conflicts since then, the moral majority outlook. The birth of the military industrial complex that is now raping our economy with $80 dollar hammers and crooked people like Dick Cheney. The advent of the enemies at home being more dangerous than those far away with McCarthy era politics and information gathering. Political double speak like never endorsing Brown v.s. Board of education, and in private saying that it was a bad idea, but signing in the first civil rights bill since the Radical reconstruction, and then undermining that is the fact that he did not think blacks should sit at the same table as whites even though the man receiving an Honorary degree (Ralph Brunche) from Columbia University was the keynote and the reason for the event. This era set the stage for the counterculture it presided over a decade later.

    I mean I could go on with the 80's up until present day, but the point is that America has never been this perfect utopian society were everyone makes out equally, and the sad truth is it never will be. This is not to say that it was a good place to be, but to act like that generation had it going on is ridiculous and is so much superior to every other one.

    America hasn't the high quality standard it use to have. Everything is open to being called useless and unnecessary. The values I grew up with are a thing of the past. Just look at the entertainment world, never see it at all back then. Look at society, things are getting out of hand. You and others may like. but the older generation see what the future may hold without values.
    Casting things off as useless has been done, will be done, and should be done. If you have a wife, did you practice tarrying? It is unnecessary and has been for centuries now. Do you ride a horse to work ? No because they are useless. How many landline phones are there left? Not many. Why? Everything SHOULD be up for scrutiny as we evaluate them for better ways of doing things.

    The "older generation" is the reason this country is in the state it is. Do you think millenials are the ones making policy? No. The entertainment you speak of, how old are these executives who own the things ? Every generation thinks the next is worse and will be the downfall of the country, and the truth is we have made incredible advancements that no other generation could have conceived of, and at the same time we have our own issues, which we will work through. That said the narrative of "my generation was better than yours" is crap, because going back throughout American history every single generation has had problems. The problem older people have is they are getting uncomfortable because they realize their time in the sun is setting, and they have been used to having unparalleled power, and they are now losing it all because of their stubbornness and regimented approach to arguing with a moral majority perspective.





  8. #356

    Re: Kaepernick Protesting American Flag

    [QUOTE=Ranger;1135725]
    Quote Originally Posted by lovefootball View Post


    I like being thorough and won't apologize for it, not that you are asking. I can be overly thorough, but I digress. I am interested in what "spewed and BS" line you are talking about.



    Good, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were and are amazing documents that were transcendent for their time, but we would not use them to build a country today. Our nation was built on the standards of a caste system, and slaves being an acceptable part of society, as well as the castigation of women, deplorable child labor laws by today's standards, and economies that were founded on the supposition of inherited wealth, and the tides were controlled by god as religion was the scientific law of the land. I am glad all of that is changing, as it should.

    If you are talking about the 50's then that is just as bad with foreign policy taking a massive dump with the advent of popularized false flags such as the cold war and the red scare, which would bleed into the 60's and the Nam era, unilateral attacks on countries in the name of democracy which has spawned all conflicts since then, the moral majority outlook. The birth of the military industrial complex that is now raping our economy with $80 dollar hammers and crooked people like Dick Cheney. The advent of the enemies at home being more dangerous than those far away with McCarthy era politics and information gathering. Political double speak like never endorsing Brown v.s. Board of education, and in private saying that it was a bad idea, but signing in the first civil rights bill since the Radical reconstruction, and then undermining that is the fact that he did not think blacks should sit at the same table as whites even though the man receiving an Honorary degree (Ralph Brunche) from Columbia University was the keynote and the reason for the event. This era set the stage for the counterculture it presided over a decade later.

    I mean I could go on with the 80's up until present day, but the point is that America has never been this perfect utopian society were everyone makes out equally, and the sad truth is it never will be. This is not to say that it was a good place to be, but to act like that generation had it going on is ridiculous and is so much superior to every other one.



    Casting things off as useless has been done, will be done, and should be done. If you have a wife, did you practice tarrying? It is unnecessary and has been for centuries now. Do you ride a horse to work ? No because they are useless. How many landline phones are there left? Not many. Why? Everything SHOULD be up for scrutiny as we evaluate them for better ways of doing things.

    The "older generation" is the reason this country is in the state it is. Do you think millenials are the ones making policy? No. The entertainment you speak of, how old are these executives who own the things ? Every generation thinks the next is worse and will be the downfall of the country, and the truth is we have made incredible advancements that no other generation could have conceived of, and at the same time we have our own issues, which we will work through. That said the narrative of "my generation was better than yours" is crap, because going back throughout American history every single generation has had problems. The problem older people have is they are getting uncomfortable because they realize their time in the sun is setting, and they have been used to having unparalleled power, and they are now losing it all because of their stubbornness and regimented approach to arguing with a moral majority perspective.
    Long answere again with you r opinions .

    But I'll say that older people are upset, but have the knowledge and understanding that the younger people will continue to disrespect the foundation America was built on and they will reap what they sow. Older people are laughing. When the police, the military and government can no longer control the USA, anarchy may be coming shortly. Includes a race war which will not even solve the problems people face.

    Hyperbole , maybe, ut the direction of the USA is not heading into anything positive based on the news the media puts out dailey.





  9. #357

    Re: Kaepernick Protesting American Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by lovefootball View Post
    Long answere again with you r opinions .

    But I'll say that older people are upset, but have the knowledge and understanding that the younger people will continue to disrespect the foundation America was built on and they will reap what they sow. Older people are laughing. When the police, the military and government can no longer control the USA, anarchy may be coming shortly. Includes a race war which will not even solve the problems people face.

    Hyperbole , maybe, ut the direction of the USA is not heading into anything positive based on the news the media puts out dailey.
    I will keep this short since you do not like to read long posts apparently.

    Who cares if older people are upset ? What are they contributing at the moment ? Is it disproportionate to what others are? If they are caught in the feels it is not the younger generations responsibility to soothe their delicate sensibilities. For a generation who prides itself on being mens men and not whining, they sure do bitch a lot.

    And speaking of reaping what you sow, has it ever occurred to this older generation that maybe they are now reaping what they have sown? Or, is it like always, someone else's fault and they do not deserve all the deplorable things happening to them ? This is the major disconnect from baby boomers to say millenials or generation Y, for a generation built on accountability, that generations complete and total unwillingness to share in any of the responsibility of the state of things, reeks of hypocrisy and discredits them consistently. The older generations biggest enemy is themselves, not the younger generations who is trying to salvage the mess they made.

    If the older generations wants respect, own your share of mistakes, belly up when it comes to fixing it, and quit acting as though you are the moral compass of a nation, when the older generation has done more harm to this country than anyone.
    Last edited by Ranger; 09-19-2016 at 12:38 PM. Reason: I cant write worth a shit.





  10. #358

    Re: Kaepernick Protesting American Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    I will keep this short since you do not like to read long posts apparently.

    Who cares if older people are upset ? What are they contributing at the moment ? Is it disproportionate to what others are? If they are caught in the feels it is not the younger generations responsibility to soothe their delicate sensibilities. For a generation who prides itself on being mens men and not whining, they sure do bitch a lot.

    And speaking of reaping what you sow, has it ever occurred to this older generation that maybe they are now reaping what they have sown? Or, is it like always, someone else's fault and they do not deserve all the deplorable things happening to them ? This is the major disconnect from baby boomers to say millenials or generation Y, for a generation built on accountability, that generations complete and total unwillingness to share in any of the responsibility of the state of things, reeks of hypocrisy and discredits them consistently. The older generations biggest enemy is themselves, not the younger generations who is trying to salvage the mess they made.

    If the older generations wants respect, own your share of mistakes, belly up when it comes to fixing it, and quit acting as though you are the moral compass of a nation, when the older generation has done more harm to this country than anyone.
    Your post is spot on with what I posted about respect, LMAO. I sense the "know it all" with you and the other poster. Enjoy this new way in how you will live your lives. Completely forget the sacrifices made to give you your freedom of speech. I read the news everyday, if you are happy with what's going on. It's all about you, ,man, LMAO.





  11. #359

    Re: Kaepernick Protesting American Flag

    [QUOTE=Ranger;1135725]
    Quote Originally Posted by lovefootball View Post

    Good, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were and are amazing documents that were transcendent for their time, but we would not use them to build a country today. Our nation was built on the standards of a caste system, and slaves being an acceptable part of society, as well as the castigation of women, deplorable child labor laws by today's standareds, and economies that were founded on the supposition of inherited wealth, and the tides were controlled by god as religion was the scientific law of the land. I am glad all of that is changing, as it should.

    [QUOTE=lovefootball;1135729]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

    But I'll say that older people are upset, but have the knowledge and understanding that the younger people will continue to disrespect the foundation America was built on and they will reap what they sow. Older people are laughing. When the police, the military and government can no longer control the USA, anarchy may be coming shortly. Includes a race war which will not even solve the problems people face.
    So we can see the disconnect here.
    To intimate that the Constitution and Declaration are not capable of being the founding of a current day country is laughable and insulting. Which is why many people are upset with CK's protest. They view it as an insult to the ideals the country was built on. No one has said the country was perfect, or lived up the ideals. No country has and no country will.
    There will also always be a big problem with comparing the past with today's standards. Today's achievements stand on top of the achievements from the past. And tomorrow's achievement will stand on today's.





  12. #360

    Re: Kaepernick Protesting American Flag

    [QUOTE=blah3;1135863][QUOTE=Ranger;1135725]

    Quote Originally Posted by lovefootball View Post

    So we can see the disconnect here.
    To intimate that the Constitution and Declaration are not capable of being the founding of a current day country is laughable and insulting. Which is why many people are upset with CK's protest. They view it as an insult to the ideals the country was built on. No one has said the country was perfect, or lived up the ideals. No country has and no country will.
    There will also always be a big problem with comparing the past with today's standards. Today's achievements stand on top of the achievements from the past. And tomorrow's achievement will stand on today's.
    Which I think is their whole deal. Disregarding anything that happened in the past is dangerous. But it's all about today and tomorrow. The respect most grew up with is gone , they will soon discover that respect was a good thing. A civilized world is not out there anymore. They'll find out how important that is.





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