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  1. #625
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Finally got around to watching Stedman Bailey closely. "Studman", I will call him from here on.

    The short...he seldom takes a wasted step through his routes. He gets in and out of his out routes very well. Also, he doesn't seem to lean into his posts or slants at all. This is the second greatest error IMO of NFL receivers; leaning into breaks. Mega, Wayne, Johnson...everyone does it, and it's a great tell for DBs. Studman doesn't seem to have that habit. He plants and goes...earning himself additional cushion by leaving the DB still back pedalling for an extra step or two.

    Comparing him to Quinton Patton, Studman doesn't quite have the foot quickness, but he doesn't have any wasted movement either, so he's more efficient with his quickness than Patton, but looks to be just as effective judging by the releases that he gets and how often he makes the first man miss after his hitch route receptions.

    I'm still not sure who I value more, Patton or Studman. Once you factor out the physical differences, I think you have much of the same, but the differentiator would be that Studman can create space at the snap as well as on his breaks. Patton excels at creating space at the snap and doesn't get as much as he should IMO with his height. An x-factor that Patton does have is his blocking. He locks guys up extremely well.

    Either way, having looked at all of the top 25 WRs (according to CBSsports.com) closely except Mallette, Wheaton and Vernon; Patton and Studman are my highest value guys so far.

    Generally, there are a lot of tall athletes with average skill sets at the position this year. I'm expecting that 3-4 athletes will Combine well and leapfrog Patton ("The General", fans call him) and Studman in "perceived" value, and that's great for us. IMO once you past Geno Smith, 3 OTs and 2 Gs, I don't think there's better offensive skill than either of these two guys.
    I agree about them being leap-frogged by athletes. Marcus Davis out of Virginia Tech could be one of those guys. He's huge (6'4" 230lbs) and he's pretty athletic for that size.

    What are your thoughts on Marquess Wilson out of Washington State?
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.





  2. #626

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Finally got around to watching Stedman Bailey closely. "Studman", I will call him from here on.

    The short...he seldom takes a wasted step through his routes. He gets in and out of his out routes very well. Also, he doesn't seem to lean into his posts or slants at all. This is the second greatest error IMO of NFL receivers; leaning into breaks. Mega, Wayne, Johnson...everyone does it, and it's a great tell for DBs. Studman doesn't seem to have that habit. He plants and goes...earning himself additional cushion by leaving the DB still back pedalling for an extra step or two.

    Comparing him to Quinton Patton, Studman doesn't quite have the foot quickness, but he doesn't have any wasted movement either, so he's more efficient with his quickness than Patton, but looks to be just as effective judging by the releases that he gets and how often he makes the first man miss after his hitch route receptions.

    I'm still not sure who I value more, Patton or Studman. Once you factor out the physical differences, I think you have much of the same, but the differentiator would be that Studman can create space at the snap as well as on his breaks. Patton excels at creating space at the snap and doesn't get as much as he should IMO with his height. An x-factor that Patton does have is his blocking. He locks guys up extremely well.

    Either way, having looked at all of the top 25 WRs (according to CBSsports.com) closely except Mallette, Wheaton and Vernon; Patton and Studman are my highest value guys so far.

    Generally, there are a lot of tall athletes with average skill sets at the position this year. I'm expecting that 3-4 athletes will Combine well and leapfrog Patton ("The General", fans call him) and Studman in "perceived" value, and that's great for us. IMO once you past Geno Smith, 3 OTs and 2 Gs, I don't think there's better offensive skill than either of these two guys.
    Good stuff BPR, i watched Patton more and i def see that Wayne comparisons. Love his feet, like you said he doesnt tip routes because of his body control during routes. Just has a natuaral feel for the game. Wherever he goes it's gonna be hard to keep him off the field, he's gonna win at least a slot job somewhere from day 1 imo.





  3. #627

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I agree about them being leap-frogged by athletes. Marcus Davis out of Virginia Tech could be one of those guys. He's huge (6'4" 230lbs) and he's pretty athletic for that size.

    What are your thoughts on Marquess Wilson out of Washington State?
    Just to throw in my .02, Marquess Wilson is one of the "big receivers" in this draft whose tape I actually like. Guys like Justin Hunter, Keenan Allen, Cordarelle Patterson, Cobi Hamilton, etc. are not super impressive to me as the top big WRs in the class. I wouldn't want the Ravens to waste early round picks on those guys.

    Personally, when it comes to "big receivers," my favorites are Da'Rick Rogers and Marquess Wilson. Rogers is a really good prospect, but the character concerns are a problem. If he checks out in the pre-draft process I would be very interested... he has a lot of Marques Colston to his game IMO, where he doesn't have great vertical speed but has good quickness out of breaks for his size and does a really good job in the seams and middle of the field. There's also some Anquan Boldin there.

    Marquess Wilson is a complicated prospect. If he wouldn't have quit on Washington State he'd probably be a 2nd round pick, possibly even a 1st if he closed the year out really well. His route running is excellent, body control is probably the best in the class, and he has steel traps for hands. He needs to put on 15-20 pounds of muscle, but he looks like he has the frame to do that and he had no trouble going across the middle and making contested catches even at 6'4 180.

    I like Wilson as a football prospect and would be happy to see the Ravens draft him with a mid-to-late pick. Him getting drafted would mean that somebody felt comfortable enough with his background check to move forward. Frankly, Mike Leach is an absolute creep and I take anything that happened with him with a huge grain of salt. I don't necessarily believe all the accusations that have followed him around, but there's a ton of smoke to suggest some sort of fire.





  4. #628

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I agree about them being leap-frogged by athletes. Marcus Davis out of Virginia Tech could be one of those guys. He's huge (6'4" 230lbs) and he's pretty athletic for that size.

    What are your thoughts on Marquess Wilson out of Washington State?
    Generally, I see another tall, athlete in Wilson with nothing that separates him from Allen, Hunter, Patterson, other than weight. He's a natural high-pointer, but too often fails to come down with the ball after he gets up there. More specifically, and this scares the hell out of me, I see some Demetrius Williams in him too. Meaning...when he hits the ground via a solid tackle, mid-air collision or dive (i.e., an attempted reception) he seldom pops-up. Now this could be a nagging injury result or something, b/c he didn't do this much in 2011, but from what I've seen in 2012 he did.

    I'd rather roll the dice on the taller, heavier, and more muscular Tommy Streeter than Wilson.





  5. #629
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Generally, I see another tall, athlete in Wilson with nothing that separates him from Allen, Hunter, Patterson, other than weight. He's a natural high-pointer, but too often fails to come down with the ball after he gets up there. More specifically, and this scares the hell out of me, I see some Demetrius Williams in him too. Meaning...when he hits the ground via a solid tackle, mid-air collision or dive (i.e., an attempted reception) he seldom pops-up. Now this could be a nagging injury result or something, b/c he didn't do this much in 2011, but from what I've seen in 2012 he did.

    I'd rather roll the dice on the taller, heavier, and more muscular Tommy Streeter than Wilson.
    See, I tend to agree with this line of thinking regarding Wilson more so than what bmorecareful's opinion of him is.

    I agree with bmore in that Wilson does run nice routes and has some nice leaping ability, but at 180lbs and 6'4" you really have to question his durability. If they want to bring him in as a UDFA and give him some time to put on weight, that's fine, but putting on 20-25lbs without losing speed is not an easy feat at all. He may just not have the genes to play in the NFL.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.





  6. #630

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    I don't see durability as a huge issue for Wilson. The kid has never missed a game in college despite routinely going across the middle and taking a lot of hits.

    A lot of guys with Wilson's spindly/lanky frame have to deal with pain tolerance issues from lingering injuries. If you watch Torrey Smith, almost every time he takes a hit he comes up limping. He injured his ankle in 2010 and it still gives him trouble, but he plays through it and it doesn't really affect his play. It's strictly pain tolerance. Smith and Wilson have VERY similar body types, although Torrey is a little better developed in his upper body.

    Wilson definitely has some uneven tape and has had some drops, but look at the way they use him. Virtually every catch he makes is in traffic/contested and he has been Washington State's ENTIRE offense since his freshman year. He could have been a lot better with a little more help on offense... and that's something I value highly in a prospect--his ability to produce despite not having help around him. It's like the "anti-USC" effect.

    Even so, there are definitely WR prospects I like better than Wilson. I don't think this is a really good class at WR honestly, there are just a few diamonds in the rough, and most of the top prospects are overrated. The things I look for in a WR prospect are the things you can't really teach--body control, quickness out of breaks, and mental acuity. I think Wilson has those to a better degree than some other prospects and I think he's a good scheme fit as a guy who can go across the middle and get YAC, but also make plays on the sidelines in vertical passing.

    My favorite WR prospect in the class is Stedman Bailey. After that, probably Da'Rick Rogers. Beyond that it's kind of just a clump of Quinton Patton, Ryan Swope, Kenny Stills, Marquess Wilson, and maybe a few other guys that I have to watch more.





  7. #631

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    BPR, curious to hear your thoughts on Cobi Hamilton...i havent watched him a bunch but when i did i was suprised with his fluidity and speed after the catch but it was mainly drags, seam stuff and quick slants. Havent seen him run many other routes.





  8. #632
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Just to throw in my .02, Marquess Wilson is one of the "big receivers" in this draft whose tape I actually like. Guys like Justin Hunter, Keenan Allen, Cordarelle Patterson, Cobi Hamilton, etc. are not super impressive to me as the top big WRs in the class. I wouldn't want the Ravens to waste early round picks on those guys.
    His hands look a little "iffy" if you ask me.






  9. #633
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I don't see durability as a huge issue for Wilson. The kid has never missed a game in college despite routinely going across the middle and taking a lot of hits.

    A lot of guys with Wilson's spindly/lanky frame have to deal with pain tolerance issues from lingering injuries. If you watch Torrey Smith, almost every time he takes a hit he comes up limping. He injured his ankle in 2010 and it still gives him trouble, but he plays through it and it doesn't really affect his play. It's strictly pain tolerance. Smith and Wilson have VERY similar body types, although Torrey is a little better developed in his upper body.




    I don't understand where you're seeing that similarity. Not only is Torrey about 3-4" shorter, but he is also at least 20lbs heavier. The pain tolerance thing, I get, but that is subjective. Wilson can go over the middle, but how is he going to go over the middle with someone like Kam Chancellor or Ryan Clark ready to take his block off? I actually think Wilson is built a lot like Randy Moss. Both are tall, lean, and lanky. However, Moss is still 205-210lbs. IF Wilson can put on weight, then he could be a similar receiver to Moss.

    I'm just not interested in Wilson for the Ravens.

    If the Ravens go receiver, I'd really like to see them (like you) go for Stedman Bailey. I think he may be the best all-around receiver in this draft. After him, Quinton Patton, Markus Wheaton, Ryan Swope, Connor Vernon, and maybe a late round flier on Roy Roundtree could work.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.





  10. #634

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Carey View Post
    BPR, curious to hear your thoughts on Cobi Hamilton...i havent watched him a bunch but when i did i was suprised with his fluidity and speed after the catch but it was mainly drags, seam stuff and quick slants. Havent seen him run many other routes.
    I haven't watched him in awhile, but IIRC he's a track guy...fast but just has that one gear. His feet are a bit slow, and he seldom shakes anyone heads-up. He's a inside route leaner for sure and will never get any separation there until he cleans that up. He does run a pretty good out route though. Average hands with a good build, but could stand to be more physical than he actually plays. His stats are partly due to the fact that Arkansas was often getting beat so badly, mid-to-long range passing was the only prudent option on offense.

    Generally, he needs polish (like just about everyone else of course) but it's incredibly hard for a track guy to "develop" quick feet or choppier strides.





  11. #635

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post




    I don't understand where you're seeing that similarity. Not only is Torrey about 3-4" shorter, but he is also at least 20lbs heavier. The pain tolerance thing, I get, but that is subjective. Wilson can go over the middle, but how is he going to go over the middle with someone like Kam Chancellor or Ryan Clark ready to take his block off? I actually think Wilson is built a lot like Randy Moss. Both are tall, lean, and lanky. However, Moss is still 205-210lbs. IF Wilson can put on weight, then he could be a similar receiver to Moss.

    I'm just not interested in Wilson for the Ravens.

    If the Ravens go receiver, I'd really like to see them (like you) go for Stedman Bailey. I think he may be the best all-around receiver in this draft. After him, Quinton Patton, Markus Wheaton, Ryan Swope, Connor Vernon, and maybe a late round flier on Roy Roundtree could work.
    Torrey is 6'1 204 with 32 5/8 inch arms. He's pretty long-limbed and lanky, with slim shoulders and hips. Wilson is similarly built, but thinner with less upper body mass. No doubt Torrey has more bulk, but I'm talking about frame build, not body mass. Torrey's frame looks pretty much maxed out on bulk while Wilson's does not. If he's serious about getting drafted I'm sure he'll hit the weight room very hard over the next few months.

    I doubt Wilson will come in at 6'4 at the Combine... probably more like 6'2 and change, 6'3 tops. The 185-ish weight number is probably accurate. Randy Moss was like 6'4 190 when he came into the league. Wilson is probably going to have to put on a bit of weight, but the college tape tells a lot more about his durability than the number at the bottom of the scale.

    But hey, it doesn't really matter anyway. Wilson might not even get drafted, and if he does it will probably be in the 5th round or so... not really a big deal. I agree there are better prospects, I just think Wilson is one of the better "bigger" receivers. That's more a statement of how underwhelming guys like Keenan Allen and Justin Hunter are, IMO.





  12. #636

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    I haven't watched him in awhile, but IIRC he's a track guy...fast but just has that one gear. His feet are a bit slow, and he seldom shakes anyone heads-up. He's a inside route leaner for sure and will never get any separation there until he cleans that up. He does run a pretty good out route though. Average hands with a good build, but could stand to be more physical than he actually plays. His stats are partly due to the fact that Arkansas was often getting beat so badly, mid-to-long range passing was the only prudent option on offense.

    Generally, he needs polish (like just about everyone else of course) but it's incredibly hard for a track guy to "develop" quick feet or choppier strides.
    Thanks! that explains it, didnt know he was a track guy. I guess it depends on what round you can get him in, people will fall in love with the size/speed combo and the production but their are certaintly variables that pad that.





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