Well we went and pissed off deCosta

[Greg]

Instead of some long worded rebuttal or useless gifs where you seem to lose everyone trying to prove your point how about you just try in one short sentence on how every one in the sports talk, sports reporting, commentating, fans, ex players, current players all are wrong on the actual fact of how bad this teams WR group currently is and has been going on 25 years now???

Just today on PFT I heard Simms talking about how our receiving corps isn't bad. We were last in attempts and in yards per game but were middle of the pack in yards per attempt (a more important stat given our offense) and passing TDs. If you are last in attempts you are likely going to be down there in yards.

It is less about receiving talent I think than schemes. We need to get Dobbins more involved and we need to have schemes where we don't have multiple receivers in one area (this perplexes me, anybody who knows football knows this).

We certainly could use more help at WR and TE but with a better OL giving Jackson more time we also would improve.

But to your point, not "every one in the sports talk, sports reporting, commentating, fans, ex players, current players" are claiming what you claim. In fact what I have heard from people like Steve Smith, Sr. is that it has more to do with poor passing schemes than talent.

[ravensfan7716]

Just today on PFT I heard Simms talking about how our receiving corps isn't bad. We were last in attempts and in yards per game but were middle of the pack in yards per attempt (a more important stat given our offense) and passing TDs. If you are last in attempts you are likely going to be down there in yards.

It is less about receiving talent I think than schemes. We need to get Dobbins more involved and we need to have schemes where we don't have multiple receivers in one area (this perplexes me, anybody who knows football knows this).

We certainly could use more help at WR and TE but with a better OL giving Jackson more time we also would improve.

But to your point, not "every one in the sports talk, sports reporting, commentating, fans, ex players, current players" are claiming what you claim. In fact what I have heard from people like Steve Smith, Sr. is that it has more to do with poor passing schemes than talent.

Steve Smith has point out the scheme yes. One of the things he mentioned was two WRS on the same side of the field seemingly running the same route. Its absurd.

Yes the coaching is bad, but if the WR talent was better do you not think a WR would be questioning this?
Do you honestly believe steve smith Sr would be out there lined up next to Hollywood wondering WTF is going on why are we about to run the same damn route? ?? No

I have seen other guys pull up video and show you how the WRS cannot get open so that cannot be blamed on coaching or the Oline.

Improving the passing game should be an easier task than expecting the front office to produce 5 pro bowlers along the oline. Blame has been put on the Oline but this team got knocked out of the play offs with (Yanda, Standley, Orlando, all good players).

You cannot expect every Oline position to be all pro.

But I think its reasonable to see this team produce a WR who can eclipse 800 yards. Its pretty sad when one of the most productive WRS we have seen in a Ravens uniform was Kamar Aiken back in what 2015.

Is 50 yards a game for a WR expecting too much? That would be what someone would have to average to simply surpass 800 yards. No one catching passes last year surpassed 800 yards.

It is not about the stats. They just seem to get completely shut down in the playoffs and they need the passing game to improve in order for this team to be able to move on

[The Wizard of OZ]

Steve Smith has point out the scheme yes. One of the things he mentioned was two WRS on the same side of the field seemingly running the same route. Its absurd.

Yes the coaching is bad, but if the WR talent was better do you not think a WR would be questioning this?
Do you honestly believe steve smith Sr would be out there lined up next to Hollywood wondering WTF is going on why are we about to run the same damn route? ?? No

I have seen other guys pull up video and show you how the WRS cannot get open so that cannot be blamed on coaching or the Oline.

Improving the passing game should be an easier task than expecting the front office to produce 5 pro bowlers along the oline. Blame has been put on the Oline but this team got knocked out of the play offs with (Yanda, Standley, Orlando, all good players).

You cannot expect every Oline position to be all pro.

But I think its reasonable to see this team produce a WR who can eclipse 800 yards. Its pretty sad when one of the most productive WRS we have seen in a Ravens uniform was Kamar Aiken back in what 2015.

Is 50 yards a game for a WR expecting too much? That would be what someone would have to average to simply surpass 800 yards. No one catching passes last year surpassed 800 yards.

It is not about the stats. They just seem to get completely shut down in the playoffs and they need the passing game to improve in order for this team to be able to move on

It would probably be prudent to indicate that you are talking about the regular season (regarding the 800 yds stat), because if we count the playoffs Hollywood was very close to 1k, had he caught a few of those, in the regular season, that he should have, combined with the playoffs he would have been over 1k. But I digress. Also, can we please allow Duvernay and Prosche to showcase what they have? This doesn't mean we shouldn't add someone else, but people seem to overlook that these guys were limited due to veteran preference, some rawness and due to unusual circumstances.

Also to add, when we throw to the TE as much as we do, and the low volume of passing we do, you're not going to have too many players with 1k yards. I don't see that changing too much. We seem to be 60/40 or 65/35 in terms of run pass ratio. That's the way it seems. I don't think we'll be 50/50 (and certainly not flipping that in favor of passing over running) with the current roster construction, which is what it seems a lot of fans want.

[Rygar64]

Just today on PFT I heard Simms talking about how our receiving corps isn't bad. We were last in attempts and in yards per game but were middle of the pack in yards per attempt (a more important stat given our offense) and passing TDs. If you are last in attempts you are likely going to be down there in yards.

It is less about receiving talent I think than schemes. We need to get Dobbins more involved and we need to have schemes where we don't have multiple receivers in one area (this perplexes me, anybody who knows football knows this).

We certainly could use more help at WR and TE but with a better OL giving Jackson more time we also would improve.

But to your point, not "every one in the sports talk, sports reporting, commentating, fans, ex players, current players" are claiming what you claim. In fact what I have heard from people like Steve Smith, Sr. is that it has more to do with poor passing schemes than talent.

This has been perplexing the hell out of me for the past few years. And it's Hollywood and Andrews alot too. Like seriously, what is going on? There is no way the coaches (offense or defense) are seeing that in practice and not addressing it. There's no way in hell there are multiple plays in the playbook that call for that to happen on purpose. Keep wondering if one of the WRs/TEs is dyslexic or has a reversed playbook or if Lamar is calling the plays in the huddle and he is off by one component of the play sometimes. The 2 receivers always look at each other after it happens like "WTF are u doing here??!" There has to be a better explanation for that than "talent". There has to be a disconnect because there are plays throughout the season where you can clearly see the concepts working together to scheme a guy open. Those "same area" plays do the exact opposite, it schemes guys covered. Maybe Roman is dyslexic? Maybe whoever puts Lamar's arm sheet together is? Dammit, somebody is based on the frequency it keeps happening.

[Shas]

I just wonder about the possibility of putting together an O Line good enough to run a one dimensional offense when opponents know it's coming and go all out to stop it.

I think that's entirely the point. (unless you are making a different point that what I think you are).

My view is that when they drafted Lamar, Harbaugh promoted Roman and they committed to a "revolutionary" offense that was run first. They were very successful in doing so, in the regular season at least. The goal has always been to be "efficient" in the passing game.

Their OL choices supported that strategy. These guys can run block.

Now they and we see issues with interior pass pro (and depth), and they seem to be adjusting their strategy to fix it. It requires linemen who can run and pass block, equally well. That will require a bigger investment for this kind of premium lineman. No more getting by with UDFAs competing with 4th and 5th rounders for spots on the interior.

If it works, defenses won't gbe able to key off the rune alone.

The hope is that, while they may not throw it more often, they will be more successful when they do throw it. They seem to think that the four WRs drafted in the last two years, and the couple more added this offseason will be enough.

[Greg]

Steve Smith has point out the scheme yes. One of the things he mentioned was two WRS on the same side of the field seemingly running the same route. Its absurd.

Yes the coaching is bad, but if the WR talent was better do you not think a WR would be questioning this?

What does talent have to do with seeing the scheme is bad. AAMOF, the best coaches are usually those who were NOT talented players.

Do you honestly believe steve smith Sr would be out there lined up next to Hollywood wondering WTF is going on why are we about to run the same damn route? ?? No

I assume you mean "and not questioning it" No, I don't, but it is not about talent, it is about Steve Smith's personality.

I have seen other guys pull up video and show you how the WRS cannot get open so that cannot be blamed on coaching or the Oline.

Are they not getting open because they suck or scheme?

Improving the passing game should be an easier task than expecting the front office to produce 5 pro bowlers along the oline. Blame has been put on the Oline but this team got knocked out of the play offs with (Yanda, Standley, Orlando, all good players).

Where did I advocate 5 Pro-Bowlers across the OL? Your logical fallacies are unimpressive points.

You cannot expect every Oline position to be all pro.

Oh, now just not Pro Bowl but I am demanding All Pro. LOL. Mow them straw men down!

But I think its reasonable to see this team produce a WR who can eclipse 800 yards.

And I would agree, but given this offense (run heavy, young WRs) and that we played without our best OL player last year scheme and OL play are also big issues.

[QtR Nevermore]

My view is that when they drafted Lamar, Harbaugh promoted Roman and they committed to a "revolutionary" offense that was run first. They were very successful in doing so, in the regular season at least. The goal has always been to be "efficient" in the passing game.

The Ravens passing game efficiency is entirely predicated on the running game. It hasn't been at all efficient without that deception so I don't think improved pass blocking is enough of an answer.

Better pass blocking will give Lamar more time in the pocket but he already had, I think, the longest time to throw in the NFL last season due to his mobility and it didn't help much.

Run defense has always been about numbers and we've seen what happens to the Ravens in the playoffs when opponents commit numbers to stopping it - they put the Ravens into obvious passing situations and then make sure Andrews and Hollywood are covered. A reliable third option would help a lot.

The Ravens passing game already has a lot of advantages - a great running game, a good O Line and a QB who can buy himself more time than anyone else in the league. The glaring weakness is one of the worst WR corps in the league. I don't want to sound like one of those WR truthers but I don't understand why any Ravens fan would be reluctant to plug that hole.

I understand why Running QB fanss, who only became Ravens fans when Lamar arrived, don't like the idea, but for anyone else, I don't get it.

[QtR Nevermore]

Also, can we please allow Duvernay and Prosche to showcase what they have?

Of course but I don't think either one is quite the right type of receiver to change the defensive looks the Ravens get. It seems like both will do their best work towards the middle of the field and quite close to the LoS, which is precisely the area the Ravens need to take defenders away from.

Duvernay seems to be someone that will need to get schemed touches and Proche might be asked to take on the Willie Snead role of putting his body on the line over the middle to bail out an occasional broken play. Neither one is going to spread defenses out, and I don't think will they threaten deep very often or convert many 3rd downs through the air.

I want the Year 2 WRs to surprise me but I hope the Ravens add that player through the draft, preferably by the end of Day 2.

[Shas]

Better pass blocking will give Lamar more time in the pocket but he already had, I think, the longest time to throw in the NFL last season due to his mobility and it didn't help much.... I don't understand why any Ravens fan would be reluctant to plug [the WR] hole

We are probably going in circles now, but I'd ask, why you are reluctant to plug the OL holes?

I know the answer is because you don't see the same holes I do, so we probably are just not going to align.

The "lamar has a lot of time" stat to prove the line is fine is misleading, because it's a function not of good pass pro but of his elusiveness and defenses being cautious to contain him.

But him having to run around and buy time on passing plays is not at all what we should want. The reason for much of their passing woes is precisely because he isn't setting his feet and stepping into throws. We need a line that will allow him to do that instead of having happy feet.

I'm not reluctant to draft a WR, and if I thought there was a clearly great option at 27 I'd be cool with it. But I don't. I thought Hollywood was a good pick when they made it. I still think he's solid, but under utilized bc Lamar doesn't have a clean pocket to throw from.

By the way, Orlando Brown ain't all that when it comes to pass pro, either. His 2020 stats were down, and he is also a beneficiary of Lamar being so dangerous back there.

In my estimation, you don't subtract a HOF guard and juggle a bunch of mid, late, undrafted options on the interior and expect to get better, much less worse, on the OL. Lamar has covered a lot of holes on the OL that I think thoughtful observers now see need plugging. Starting with Zeitler and hopefully a pick in the first two rounds. I'm very on board with that strategy. If Devonta Smith falls to 27, I'm dumping my precious theories faster than you can say, rush the card to the podium, Jack.

[QtR Nevermore]

We are probably going in circles now, but I'd ask, why you are reluctant to plug the OL holes?

I'm not. I see OLB, WR and O Line as fairly equal draft needs. Ideally I'd like to see the board to fall in such a way that they can all be addressed within the first two days, in whatever order offers the best value.

I'm not reluctant to draft a WR, and if I thought there was a clearly great option at 27 I'd be cool with it. But I don't.

I feel the same way about OLB and interior O Line (Unless Phillips or Dickerson are judged to be less risky than they seem.) whereas I think Bateman and Marshall (or one of the Tackles) would be great picks.

I don't think either of us are extremists in the WR vs O Line wars really.

[WrongBaldy]

Lol why revolutionize only the run game and not the whole offense? 😂

Makes zero sense

[edromeo]

I don’t see anyone saying don’t draft a WR.

I’m a BPA guy and it’s likely a WR may be the BPA at 27.

But going back to DeCosta the point.
I think he’s saying that dumping on the current WRs isn’t an a fair assessment of *this* passing game/offense.

Plainly the WR need improvement, no doubt.

But to look at the passing game, especially looking at volume and say the WR are *the* cause if off base.

Even going to the most recent playoff loss. It wasn’t an issue of WRs not being open. The WRs didn’t fail. The pass protection failed. The ability to snap the ball failed. The wind conditions weren’t conducive to passing for *both* teams. The play calling/scheme are what they are (suboptimal) and Lamar didn’t have a good game.

Lamar ability allows for easy passing looks that they weren’t able to execute and it wasn’t a WR issue.

People in the media love to reflexively bash the WRs because it’s an easy quick sound bite. The Ravens have low passing volume therefore WRs = bad.

If the WRs are open or not given opportunity how is it their fault?

This is the passing game and offense they chosen to run and it works. It works quite well. Does it de-emphasize the WRs? Yes.
But it by design.

With all that being said, I hope they add more talent at WR when it’s the BPA.