Results 37 to 48 of 303
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11-30-2012, 12:30 PM #37Regular 1st Stringer
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Re: What is Joe worth?
The Ravens are great because Flacco is a great QB. Flacco is great because he plays on a great team.
"Elite" is the koolaid that media hands out to numb brains like yourself.
Is Flacco amongst the greatest QB to ever play? Only time will tell that story. Elway didn't become legendary until the end of his career.
Elway was a winner.
Unitas was a winner.
Flacco is a winner!
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11-30-2012, 12:43 PM #38
Re: What is Joe worth?
Woah.... Wait a second. First you said:
Then you said:
although I choke on giving a single player credit for a team accomplishment.
Did Trent Dilfer win a Super Bowl?
So if we are going to be fair here, then Ben Rothlisberger is NOT the reason the Steelers won that SB. And if we are comparing stats, then Ben Rothlisberger was NOT an "elite" QB that year. In fact, Joe Flacco's overall stats were BETTER than Ben's that year. So if Ben was "elite", then so was Joe.
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11-30-2012, 12:43 PM #39
Re: What is Joe worth?
I know you weren't. It was more a general question. I think Joe will get the number that works for him and works for the Ravens cap too. I tend to think guys like Joe and Rice realize that while they want to get paid, it has to be to a point that they can keep the other weapons that make the offense work. We shall see.
Heh.
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11-30-2012, 01:22 PM #41Veteran Poster
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11-30-2012, 02:25 PM #42
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11-30-2012, 02:35 PM #43Veteran Poster
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Re: What is Joe worth?
He won a SB his second-to-last year. Then again in his final year. But you are right that none were won until the end. But SB's are team achievements anyway, and Denver got there after Elway's 4th, 5th, 7th, 15th, and 16th seasons, winning the last two. Bottomline is, Elway was one of the league's best from early in his career, throughout his career, with some obvious ups and downs based on randomness and his surrounding talent.
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11-30-2012, 02:58 PM #44Veteran Poster
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Re: What is Joe worth?
Here are the top 10 all-time QBR for a season:
Aaron Rodgers (2011) 122.5 Lost in divisional round
Peyton Manning (2004) 121.1 Lost in divisional round
Tom Brady (2007) 117.2 Lost in the Super Bowl
Steve Young (1994) 112.8 Super Bowl champions
Tom Brady (2010) 111.0 Lost in the divisional round
Daunte Culpepper (2004) 110.9 Lost in the divisional round
Drew Brees (2011) 110.6 Lost in the divisional round
Drew Brees (2009) 109.6 Super Bowl champions
Kurt Warner (1999) 109.2 Super Bowl champions
Dan Marino (1984) 108.9 Lost in Super Bowl
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11-30-2012, 03:24 PM #45Veteran Poster
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Re: What is Joe worth?
The problem with your data is that he didn't say he was pessimistic because Joe isn't ranked #1 in QBR and SB winners are required to be (or even usually are).
Here is better data to support his point:
Over the last 25 years, SB winning QBs, and their QB rating rank for the year:
2011 E. Manning (7)
2010 Rodgers (3)
2009 Brees (1)
2008 Roethlisberger (24)
2007 E.Manning (25)
2006 P.Manning (1)
2005 Roethlisberger (3)
2004 Brady (9)
2003 Brady (10)
2002 Johnson (3)
2001 Brady (6)
2000 Dilfer (20)
1999 Warner (1)
1998 Elway (5)
1997 Elway (7)
1996 Favre (2)
1995 Aikman (3)
1994 Young (1)
1993 Aikman (2)
1992 Aikman (3)
1991 Rypien (2)
1990 Simms* (4)
1989 Montana (1)
1988 Montana (6)
As you can see, out of 24 winners, only 3 are ranked outside the top 10, including Dilfer.
* - Hostetler finished season and played in playoffs and SB.
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11-30-2012, 03:46 PM #46Regular 1st Stringer
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Re: What is Joe worth?
That seems to show a fairly strong correlation between high QB rating and playoff/SB success.
Looking at it another way, here is the season QB rating of the SB winning QB's
2012 Eli Manning 92.9
2011 Aaron Rodgers 101.2
2010 Drew Brees 109.6
2009 Ben R. 80.1
2008 Eli Manning 86.5
2007 P. Manning 101.0
2005 Tom Brady 92.6
2004 Tom Brady 85.9
2003 Brad Johnson 92.9
2002 Tom Brady 86.5
So if Joe Flacco and his present 87 rating were to win the Super Bowl he would have a higher rating than 4 of the past 10 winners.
Interesting two of those would be a young Tom Brady... who although a superior rated QB has had difficulty getting back to the Super Bowl... perhaps because he now commands a large % of his teams cap and the NE talent (especially on defense) in no where near what it was 10 years ago?
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11-30-2012, 03:51 PM #47Veteran Poster
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Re: What is Joe worth?
Fair enough...he also said Flacco is "consistently in the 15-20 range". Here are Flacco's ratings and where they rank that season:
2008 82.8 16th
2009 87.4 13th
2010 93.6 6th
2011 81.7 15th
He's as likely to be rated 15-20 as he is to be rated higher. And 15-20 to me implies "below average", if even slightly; and that is not the case.
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Re: What is Joe worth?
Personally I think he's worth about what Eli got. I really don't see Eli as any better than Flacco. Both can take over when handed the reigns and it's critical time, both have alot of bad games. Eli is in a much more pass happy O. Eli caught lucky breaks and has 2 rings that Flacco doesn't, but than again Joe was let down twice that could've led to SB berths.
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