Observations From OTA's (May 24, 2023)

**riprulz8** · 05-27-2023, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by DonNMass

Flacco had to wear a big yellow S on his chest every game. How many blown leads by Pees just against NE did he had to overcome? He arguably could have delivered 2 SBÂ’s but, Lee Evans. He got hobbled, semi-retired, and recycled receivers, and when he finally got a real one, Ozzie ties his hands again and traded Boldin. And really he only had one year with a quality OC.
Was he sporadic? Yup. Lapses in judgement at times? Was he really ever set up for success? Nope. A very familiar 15 year script that Lamar faced too.

Oh I love Joe.

Just responding to the poster who said Lamar has proven zero as a passer. That statement was absurd.

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**ClericBlackDave** · 05-27-2023, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by cbaywolf

GTFOH!! Lamar has proven ZERO as a passer so far. He may be a super crazy athletic freak, but he is not a better passer than Flacco at this point, and it’s laughable to even try to pretend that. Lamar ranked out of the top 10 in EVERY passing category in that ESPN piece last year ranking all NFL quarterbacks. He’s a super athlete who’s shown to be an average passer. To say otherwise just shows that you have zero objectivity. This was measuring accuracy, footwork, arm strength, touch, vision, pocket presence, etc.

Joe elevated his game even more when stakes were high. Thus far, Lamar has not.

And please don’t come back with how many touchdowns he had in 2019. That was all scheme generated with a new offense that teams didn’t know how to defend. Now they do, and he’s got to get a lot better at the basic things in his passing game.

People SO BADLY want Lamar to be the next big thing, passer wise.

He's not proven that yet.

And thats not to say that he won't. I have high hopes. I HOPE he will. I suspect he will. But he has not surpassed Flacco as a passer.

Anyone saying that is spouting the most speculative of unsupported opinions.

**ravensfan55** · 05-27-2023, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave

People SO BADLY want Lamar to be the next big thing, passer wise.

He's not proven that yet.

And thats not to say that he won't. I have high hopes. I HOPE he will. I suspect he will. But he has not surpassed Flacco as a passer.

Anyone saying that is spouting the most speculative of unsupported opinions.

I think a lot of people's judgement is clouded by Lamar's incredible athleticism compared to Flacco. On sheer arm talent, Flacco in his prime was clearly better.

**purple_city39** · 05-27-2023, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Laxdad24

While I’m sure that’s true …what was Joe after year 5? That’s apples to apples. Joes been in the league for 15 yrs. Played for some crappy teams since leaving here.

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Since nobody answered, Joe's passer rating after his first 5 years was 86.3. Going back to ruprulz8's comment you responded to, that would have had Joe sitting at 46th all time.

An issue I see with people's perception of Lamar throwing is that he does so much running, which gets the highlights, people just assume someone who runs a lot is also a bad passer. Even when watching sports shows, the highlight the running and show INTs. Either that or recency bias with 2021 being a bad throwing year for him, and him only being 2 years removed from it.

Lamar's been throwing in a passing scheme that causes multiple former NFL players, including a Hall of Famer, to question what was the thought process behind those schemes every time they analyze it. To have a career passer rating right now that does rank 13th all time, imo, tells me he just can't be that bad of a passer. Now can I think of 13 players historically that I'd say are better passers? Yes, but it's hard to deny he hasn't done fairly well throwing.

Volume should never be the argument for ability, which is another mistake people tend to make against Lamar. For example, his career yards per attempt is tied with 3 others players, 1 of them being Tom Brady and he's ahead of players like Josh Allen, Matthew Stafford, and Justin Herbert. This shows that not piling up prolific yardage amount is more about lack of attempts as opposed to lack of ability

**ShadeRaven** · 05-27-2023, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by riprulz8

Oh I love Joe.

Just responding to the poster who said Lamar has proven zero as a passer. That statement was absurd.

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Lmao Highest paid QB, former MVP, former league TD leader cant throw the football smh

Why even be a fan of the team at that point?

**Mmcclend** · 05-27-2023, 12:40 PM

Obviously Lamar is a damn good thrower of the football. I still think Joe was a better pure passer but not by much. This season will really give Lamar a chance to show how good of a passer he really is. New scheme, elite weapons around him, a coach that’s going to let him run the show. I’m excited to see how it plays out.

**QuothDaRaven** · 05-27-2023, 12:50 PM

Joe threw a prettier spiral with a more classic motion, and had an absolute cannon. Lamar is using all sorts of arm slots, his thrown football often wobbles (not always, sometimes it’s got a tight spiral), and he has underrated arm strength (he can flick his wrist and send the ball 50 yards downfield).

I’m grateful both of them were/are Ravens.

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**DonNMass** · 05-27-2023, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by riprulz8

Oh I love Joe.

Just responding to the poster who said Lamar has proven zero as a passer. That statement was absurd.

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Lol I didn’t take it that way. Your points were spot on. Lamar hasn’t reached his potential as a QB, and neither did Flacco.

Fans keep assigning blame to players, execution, and schemes for over a decade and a half because a FO and HC’ing philosophy doesn’t value passing. Now it’s Lamar’s turn to take the blame.

Boil Ex’s posts down and I can’t find where he’s been wrong. Schemes aren’t philosophy. There I said it! Lol. I’m cautiously optimistic but won’t be surprised to see the new look Raven’s O look a lot like the old Raven’s O with a little passing thrown in for window dressing. After multiple QB’s, receivers, assistant coaches, even different GM’s and we’re having the same exact conversation about Raven’s O philosophy for 15 years.

For all ya’all blaming Roman, he coached to the expectations of his boss. For quite a few years.

**Ravensblitzkrieg** · 05-27-2023, 02:48 PM

This Flacco history rewrite is crazy. Flacco was always a mediocre passer with an absolute cannon. Can’t even name all the times he had a wide open Torrey smith only to launch it 10 yards over his head.

Flacco caught lightening in a bottle is Super Bowl/contract year in the playoffs. Other than that Flacco was a middle of the pack QB. Nothing more

**DonNMass** · 05-27-2023, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Ravensblitzkrieg

This Flacco history rewrite is crazy. Flacco was always a mediocre passer with an absolute cannon. Can’t even name all the times he had a wide open Torrey smith only to launch it 10 yards over his head.

Flacco caught lightening in a bottle is Super Bowl/contract year in the playoffs. Other than that Flacco was a middle of the pack QB. Nothing more

Lee Evans couldn’t be reached for comment.

**cbaywolf** · 05-27-2023, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by riprulz8

Lamar is 13th all time on the career passer rating leaderboard.

Joe Flacco is tied for 61st.

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Then again, tell me what all these NFL football analysts can’t figure out, but you can with your statistics? He’s not even rated in the top 10 of almost every major throwing category. He’s just not good at these things yet. And just about everyone agrees. This season will be telling, but as of yet, he hasn’t shown he can do it with only his arm. And when our run has been taken away, he’s been bad.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...g-ability-more

And this is obvious to anyone who watches him throw the football, and miss WAY more open guys than Flacco ever did. Like it or not, this is where most people rank him in the NFL world (and probably why he couldn’t secure one contract offer). Flacco wasn’t able to rely on trickery and a once in a lifetime offensive scheme that defenses couldn’t figure out. It was just his arm ability. I’m not even saying Flacco was a better quarterback. He was just better at throwing the football. If Lamar injures his leg and can’t move, he’d never be able to carry the team with just his arm. Thats probably why he said he didn’t want to come back at less than 100% for the playoffs frankly- he knows if he can’t move well he’s not going to be able to rely solely on throwing the ball. Mahomes, Allen, or Burrow would never think this and would have all got on the field with the playoffs at stake (and one of them did).

**Ed and Ray** · 05-27-2023, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave

People SO BADLY want Lamar to be the next big thing, passer wise.

He's not proven that yet.

And thats not to say that he won't. I have high hopes. I HOPE he will. I suspect he will. But he has not surpassed Flacco as a passer.

Anyone saying that is spouting the most speculative of unsupported opinions.

Shouldn't be about Lamar being the next big thing passer wise, should be about doing what it takes to win it all. Lamar can throw under 4k yds every season, could care less as long as we are winning. Not about who's the most accurate passers or who has the most passing yds, it's about winning and winning SBs. Reminds me of 2 QBs that come to mind when saying this, Romo and Marino. Great passers of the football with all the passing stats with 0 SBs to back them. He'll, even Rodgers has 1 SB being in the lg for 18yrs and many say he's the best QB ever from an overall talent aspect. Whoever has the most passing yards doesn't necessarily equate a SB victory.