Flacco career stats vs level of defense

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 10-02-2012, 09:03 PM

So on this rainy day when I couldn't work, in between arguing with you knuckleheads I have been crunching numbers pretty much since I woke up. This goes back to the Ryan/Flacco debate where I have stated that the differences in defenses faced is so dramatic I wanted to show it in a comparison.

Well I just finished Flacco's first four years, and if you think he doesn't have it tough playing outdoors and against top shelf defenses in damn near every game, look at these splits.

I broke the level of defense down into 5 categories.

Ranked 1-5 - Best of the best
Ranked 6-11 - Very Good
Ranked 12-20 - Average
Ranked 21-26 - Poor
Ranked 27-32 - Terrible.

Here is how Joe's numbers break down..

.......................(Comp Att Com% Yds TD INT Yd/Att Rate Def Field Opp Result)

Joe vs 1-5 ranked.

Total(22 game) 364 676 53.8 4,298 22 21 6.36 71.4 2.86 0/22 NA 12-10

Joe vs 6-11 Ranked

Total (15 game) 276 447 61.7 2,910 16 11 6.51 82.3 8.2 3/12 NA 9-6

Joe vs 12-20 Ranked

Total(18 game) 354 563 62.9 4,050 21 16 7.19 85.1 15.9 2/16 NA 12-6

Joe vs 21-26 Ranked

Total(10 game) 183 285 64.2 2,179 19 4 7.65 103.8 24 1/9 NA 9-1

Joe vs 27-32 ranked

Total(8 game) 147 234 62.8 1,911 10 2 8.17 99.2 30.5 0/8 NA 7-1

This is just a tiny sample of what I will be working on over the next month or so, gonna move onto Ryan next and show just how easy his road has been compared to Flacco, despite almost identical stats through 4 years. Ryan plays those last 2 categories as much as Joe plays the first 2, and you can see the dramatic difference in results. If Joe played the shit defenses Ryan did the numbers wouldn't even be close, and I am going to show it. I will even be able to do some projections if the roles were flipped.

**Coastergenius** · 10-03-2012, 10:31 AM

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that a QB playing in the NFC South has an easier road to putting up great numbers than a QB playing in the AFC North playing does. Plus you can make the same argument that people said during Peyton Manning/Tom Brady debate years ago. While we're had a much better defense to help Flacco out, Ryan has a better offense to work with (kind of like when Brady had the great defense, but Manning had the great offensive weapons to work with, funny how Brady has great weapons, but not defense now).

**somedumbguy** · 10-03-2012, 11:31 AM

Cool statistics.

I like Matt Ryan. I think he is a hell of a quarterback. I like Joe Flacco. He is also a hell of a quarterback. I think both are capable of winning Superbowls. If, at the end of Joe Flacco's career he has raised the Lombardi once or twice, then I don't care if Matt Ryan plays in a dome against weaker defenses and throws for 5000 more yards. I won't even care if Matt Ryan also wins a Superbowl or two because he seems like a nice guy and Atlanta isn't exactly Pittsburgh in terms of my hatred for the city.

But I appretiate the statistics because I like to be able to defend Joe if needed. I think this makes a slightly bigger difference in Atlanta because they had a choice of either person. Baltimore did not. If Flacco wins 2 Superbowls and Ryan does not, then it means they potentially made a mistake. I kind of think this is misguided, but for whatever reason Baltimore fans believing that their QB can make their team good enough to compete with anybody just gets people tied up in a bunch for some reason. What important is not whether Flacco is better than Ryan or vicsa versa, but that neither Flacco nor Ryan are Mark Sanchez, Colt McCoy, Matt Leinart, David Carr, Kyle Boller or a dozen other high draft pick QB's picks that set their franchises back 5 to 10 years because they did not have the skill set to compete with the best.

But if people are going to be douchey about it I want the ammunition to defend my guy, so keep the numbers coming. :)

**Corey** · 10-03-2012, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow

So on this rainy day when I couldn't work, in between arguing with you knuckleheads I have been crunching numbers pretty much since I woke up. This goes back to the Ryan/Flacco debate where I have stated that the differences in defenses faced is so dramatic I wanted to show it in a comparison.

Well I just finished Flacco's first four years, and if you think he doesn't have it tough playing outdoors and against top shelf defenses in damn near every game, look at these splits.

I broke the level of defense down into 5 categories.

Ranked 1-5 - Best of the best
Ranked 6-11 - Very Good
Ranked 12-20 - Average
Ranked 21-26 - Poor
Ranked 27-32 - Terrible.

Here is how Joe's numbers break down..

.......................(Comp Att Com% Yds TD INT Yd/Att Rate Def Field Opp Result)

Joe vs 1-5 ranked.

Total(22 game) 364 676 53.8 4,298 22 21 6.36 71.4 2.86 0/22 NA 12-10

Joe vs 6-11 Ranked

Total (13 game) 249 399 62.4 2,603 15 11 6.52 82.3 8.08 2/12 NA 7-6

Joe vs 12-20 Ranked

Total(17 game) 337 540 62.4 3,818 20 16 7.07 83.6 16 2/15 NA 11-6

Joe vs 21-26 Ranked

Total(10 game) 183 285 64.2 2,179 19 4 7.65 103.8 24 1/9 NA 9-1

Joe vs 27-32 ranked

Total(8 game) 147 234 62.8 1,911 10 2 8.17 99.2 30.5 0/8 NA 7-1

This is just a tiny sample of what I will be working on over the next month or so, gonna move onto Ryan next and show just how easy his road has been compared to Flacco, despite almost identical stats through 4 years. Ryan plays those last 2 categories as much as Joe plays the first 2, and you can see the dramatic difference in results. If Joe played the shit defenses Ryan did the numbers wouldn't even be close, and I am going to show it. I will even be able to do some projections if the roles were flipped.

That's an eye opening stat. He's played more games vs top 5 defenses than he has the bottom 10 combined.

**dscola31** · 10-03-2012, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by somedumbguy

Cool statistics.

I like Matt Ryan. I think he is a hell of a quarterback. I like Joe Flacco. He is also a hell of a quarterback. I think both are capable of winning Superbowls. If, at the end of Joe Flacco's career he has raised the Lombardi once or twice, then I don't care if Matt Ryan plays in a dome against weaker defenses and throws for 5000 more yards. I won't even care if Matt Ryan also wins a Superbowl or two because he seems like a nice guy and Atlanta isn't exactly Pittsburgh in terms of my hatred for the city.

But I appretiate the statistics because I like to be able to defend Joe if needed. I think this makes a slightly bigger difference in Atlanta because they had a choice of either person. Baltimore did not. If Flacco wins 2 Superbowls and Ryan does not, then it means they potentially made a mistake. I kind of think this is misguided, but for whatever reason Baltimore fans believing that their QB can make their team good enough to compete with anybody just gets people tied up in a bunch for some reason. What important is not whether Flacco is better than Ryan or vicsa versa, but that neither Flacco nor Ryan are Mark Sanchez, Colt McCoy, Matt Leinart, David Carr, Kyle Boller or a dozen other high draft pick QB's picks that set their franchises back 5 to 10 years because they did not have the skill set to compete with the best.

But if people are going to be douchey about it I want the ammunition to defend my guy, so keep the numbers coming. :)

And that's the point. It's like people are saying, "How dare you like Joe Flacco!" As if appreciating and defending my querterback is wrong.

**rharris1986** · 10-03-2012, 12:38 PM

I am one of these people who believe that Superbowls don't much matter at all. Dan Marino never won a Superbowl and he's still considered one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. Superbowls are just one game and a player might have 15 chances to get there (15 years) if he's lucky. And so much of it depends on the other players around you - and the other teams you play against - things you don't have any control over. The primary example as far as the Ravens are concerned was the drop last year of that touchdown pass in the endzone by Lee Evans. If he had held onto the ball we would have gone to the Superbowl - and I believe the Ravens would have beaten the Giants. He didn't and Joe didn't get to the Superbowl - not because of Joe - but because of Lee Evans.

The breakdown of Joe's record against defenses (by category) is interesting. I can't wait to see Andy Dalton's. For one thing we know he is ZERO wins and FIVE losses against the Steelers and Ravens. My guess is that by the time we get to play him again he will be ZERO wins and SEVEN losses against the Steelers and Ravens.

**pslholder96** · 10-03-2012, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by rharris1986

I am one of these people who believe that Superbowls don't much matter at all. Dan Marino never won a Superbowl and he's still considered one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. Superbowls are just one game and a player might have 15 chances to get there (15 years) if he's lucky. And so much of it depends on the other players around you - and the other teams you play against - things you don't have any control over. The primary example as far as the Ravens are concerned was the drop last year of that touchdown pass in the endzone by Lee Evans. If he had held onto the ball we would have gone to the Superbowl - and I believe the Ravens would have beaten the Giants. He didn't and Joe didn't get to the Superbowl - not because of Joe - but because of Lee Evans.

The breakdown of Joe's record against defenses (by category) is interesting. I can't wait to see Andy Dalton's. For one thing we know he is ZERO wins and FIVE losses against the Steelers and Ravens. My guess is that by the time we get to play him again he will be ZERO wins and SEVEN losses against the Steelers and Ravens.

The comment devaluing the importance of superbowls is mind boggling. If superbowls don't matter then why are coaches coaching, players competing not to mention fans watching. Every profession has its pinnacle of success and in football it's the superbowl. Greatness is not just limited to career statistics but is further cemented by superbowl championships.There's a lot of weight placed on superbowl championships and deservedly so.

**callahan09** · 10-03-2012, 01:14 PM

Thanks for the research, Show.

I'd love to see the similar splits for Ryan.

On another note, is it hard to believe to anybody else that Flacco has played 22 games against top 5 defenses? That's almost a third! That's astonishing. I knew he had a tough schedule, but damn!

But I have a question, you've got 70 total games listed (if you add up how many games you said he's played against each ranking)... He's only played 68 regular season games, though. And he's played more than 70 if you count post-season. So what's up with that?

**ravensnhokies** · 10-03-2012, 01:28 PM

TheJoeFlaccoShow thanks a lot for all the stat legwork.

My 2cents... I think both Joe and Matt are great QBs with potential to become Top 5 in the league guys. I may be a bit biased but I'd take Joe over Matt but honestly, I'd be happy with either one. I do think Joe's ceiling is higher b/c he has better physical skills. This season Matt is probably slightly more consistent (doesnt have those Joe like 2H Eagles game stretches), whereas Joe is more explosive. But again, both are damn QBs and we are lucky that both give our teams an opportunity each week to win.

Its obvious that Joe is the benefactor of playing better defenses/in tougher weather conditions during the regular season. It prepares him for the playoffs. Conversely, Matt is hindered and it shows in his playoff performance. I think if Matt played in the AFC North his stats wouldnt be as good, but his progression would be greater. I actually feel a bit sorry for him b/c you don't get better by playing against weaker competition and unfortunately you don't have a choice of who you play.

**TheJoeFlaccoShow** · 10-03-2012, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by callahan09

Thanks for the research, Show.

I'd love to see the similar splits for Ryan.

On another note, is it hard to believe to anybody else that Flacco has played 22 games against top 5 defenses? That's almost a third! That's astonishing. I knew he had a tough schedule, but damn!

But I have a question, you've got 70 total games listed (if you add up how many games you said he's played against each ranking)... He's only played 68 regular season games, though. And he's played more than 70 if you count post-season. So what's up with that?

That is including postseason games. I could have missed a game pulling from the charts down into the categories, I will double check when I have time.

Thanks for the heads up, I figured there was going to be an error in there somewhere with all those numbers I was staring at all day.

**Jsmoove** · 10-03-2012, 02:20 PM

Joe's road have never been easy, thrust into the starting line up and playing tough teams since he's been the starter. If he had some of the schedules Matt Ryan had i think we would have been in the superbowl already.

**GOTA** · 10-03-2012, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

Joe's road have never been easy, thrust into the starting line up and playing tough teams since he's been the starter. If he had some of the schedules Matt Ryan had i think we would have been in the superbowl already.

If receivers could hold on to a damn ball Flacco would have been in the Super Bowl. It's not the schedule holding him back.