The Gay Thread cont.

[NCRAVEN]

Lol.

+1

[jonboy79]

Churches will marry gay people in a decade without problems because society as a whole will no longer have a problem with it. Churches are the canary in the coal mine when it comes to the morality of the general society. With a younger generation coming into adulthood not carrying the bigotry of the preceding generation, even churches will change or else they will become obsolete .

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It would be my contention that churches will become obsolete within a few generations pretty much no matter what they do. I think religion in the near future will be a television/internet thing to the minority still interested in it. Church, and religion in general is far less important to those under roughly 40 years of age then those above that age.

[NCRAVEN]

It's changing here in the states...slowly but is changing. The reaction to Obama's statement is very telling as to what this country believes. A couple years ago, you would have seen a stronger reaction against Obama. It would have been couched as a "war on marriage" and a "tearing of the social fabric" blah blah blah but really the only thing the conservatives are trying to stick to the wall here is that was some type of "political play" on Obama's part. There is a big difference in "war on marriage" and "political play". It speaks volumes on the increasing comfort that moderate America feels on gay relationships. The most ironic part of the whole "political play" talking point is that the connies then turn around and say how it will negatively affect Obama. How does that work????

You really need think outside your highly partisan box sometimes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/15/us...-politics.html

Sixty-seven percent of those surveyed by The New York Times and CBS News since the announcement said they thought that Mr. Obama had made it “mostly for political reasons,” while 24 percent said it was “mostly because he thinks it is right.” Independents were more likely to attribute it to politics, with nearly half of Democrats agreeing.

[Galen Sevinne]

And it's not my intention to bash Americans, I know that's not what you are getting at, I just want to say it for myself. I fully appreciated that the vocal anti-gay marriage/uncomfortable with homosexuality element is not representative of American society as a whole, and the greater disinterest in the whole issue is oddly comforting in that it does suggest people are just realising it's not that big a deal.

Yeah...its a reflex action on my part when I notice someone discussing american social issues that is not American to quickly defend America as not so backwards. I have spent a lot of time abroad in my life and the questions always come up about Americans odd relationship with sex and some other social issues. I don't think the majority of Americans are homophobic or even antigay or really even think about it too much. Of course, I have always lived on the east coast, around cities and around progressive people and institutions.

The percentage of teenagers that are bisexual or at least open about it has increased dramatically in the past decade and their comfort discussing same sex relationships is really astonishing. Of course the older generations are still openly condemning it but my point earlier about college-aged kids and younger is that it is rapidly changing and religious institutions will need to adapt to their perspectives or else become a thing of the past. There are a lot more nondenominational churches springing up that are more tolerant of different views which will probably absorb a lot of the younger folks as they come of age.

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[darb72]

It would be my contention that churches will become obsolete within a few generations pretty much no matter what they do. I think religion in the near future will be a television/internet thing to the minority still interested in it. Church, and religion in general is far less important to those under roughly 40 years of age then those above that age.

So you have some stats to back that up, or are you just guessing based on the people you hang around?

[TheExtraPoint]

So you have some stats to back that up, or are you just guessing based on the people you hang around?

That's an odd request given all of the anecdotal evidence that informs some of your opinions, like the ones you shared a few days ago:

The highly amusing thing about this entire argument is that not even the gay community agrees 100% on gay marriages. At least half the gay folks I know are opposed to gay marriage, a couple of them even more fiercely opposed than the holy rollers I hang out with.

Yet straight people, with no horse in the race, get really fired up about it.

I know more gay folks than most folks on this board because of my job. Admittedly we don't sit around discussing the political ramifications of being gay, but every so often, like Obama saying he's pro-gay marriage, the topic comes up. It's really about a 50/50 split with gay males leaning more towards anti-gay marriage while the lesbians want it legalized.

[Galen Sevinne]

That's an odd request given all of the anecdotal evidence that informs some of your opinions, like the ones you shared a few days ago:

Shhhhhh....he knows real gay people and he has empirically proven that to be fact.

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[jonboy79]

So you have some stats to back that up, or are you just guessing based on the people you hang around?

It's an educated guess, that i find curious that anyone would oppose???
I personally know only a single person my age or younger(32) that intentionally, regularly attends church or temple on a regular basis. Interestingly, the majority of people I know above my age are regular attnedees. I do however know a fair ammount of holiday attnedees, and even a fair ammount of typicallly non practicers that follow practices such as fasting on Yom Kippur.

So while my sample size is small and likely tainted, the difference between 50+% over 40 and far under 10% under 40 are pretty glaring... I'm sure the real numbers are closer, but by how much?

Do you have stats you would like to share? And there is no point in looking at those under the age of 18, whom have no say in whether they attend or not. I am only concerned about those between say 18-40. I'd even be interested in historical numbers for that age group in case you have data to suggest many of my contemporaries are more likely to attend once their age increases. Also of note is that my sample includes single people, married people, those with families, gay, straight, Muslim, Jewish, accross multiple races though skews towards white, straight and either Jewish or Christian. Geographically, my sample exists generally from this area northeast into southeastern Canada.
The lone weekly practicioner I know is an Orthodox Jew, born in Israel who only returned to weekly temple after starting a family. I do know his wife, so I guess that makes it two.

[darb72]

It's not an "educated guess". It's supposition based on a tiny data sample.

I'd say that 60% of the people I know who don't go to my church, go to a church. Of course we have to factor in where I live and the fact I never hang out with democrats, so the folks I know tend to be the group that attends church anyway.

Yeah older people tend to go to church more. It's a routine you fall into that you just don't think about when you're younger. Once you get a job and stop partying on Friday and Saturday nights it's much easier to get up on Sundays. I didn't start going regularly until I was 30, though my wife has always gone.

[Trackmaster]

It's not an "educated guess". It's supposition based on a tiny data sample.

I'd say that 60% of the people I know who don't go to my church, go to a church. Of course we have to factor in where I live and the fact I never hang out with democrats, so the folks I know tend to be the group that attends church anyway.

Yeah older people tend to go to church more. It's a routine you fall into that you just don't think about when you're younger. Once you get a job and stop partying on Friday and Saturday nights it's much easier to get up on Sundays. I didn't start going regularly until I was 30, though my wife has always gone.

I was actually wondering about this. It would be interesting to see if this generally assumed idea was true, or if it has more to do with Generation Y/Z being more averse to religion in general. It's probably a combination of the two. We'll see in 20 years if the current generation goes back to church when they're clock is running out and they want more stability for their family, or if our society is outgrowing religion in general.

[wickedsolo]

It's not an "educated guess". It's supposition based on a tiny data sample.

I'd say that 60% of the people I know who don't go to my church, go to a church. Of course we have to factor in where I live and the fact I never hang out with democrats, so the folks I know tend to be the group that attends church anyway.

Yeah older people tend to go to church more. It's a routine you fall into that you just don't think about when you're younger. Once you get a job and stop partying on Friday and Saturday nights it's much easier to get up on Sundays. I didn't start going regularly until I was 30, though my wife has always gone.

Democrats don't go to church?

[darb72]

Democrats don't go to church?

Not that I've run across.

Again, you have to take into account where I live. Down here democrats neatly fit into a fringe society that the rest of us treat like lepers. You've seen "The Blind Side". Where the guy says, "Who'd have thought we'd have a black son before we knew a democrat?" is a pretty good summation. I work in academia so I do actually know more than one or two, but none of 'em go to church. I don't know if Nicki knows any democrats.