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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    A few things. What is wrong (in your opinion) with the health care system and what could fix it or why is legislation the way to go? And lastly, how does the commerce clause make it okay for the government to tell you to buy something? And if they can tell you to buy health insurance, what’s to stop them from saying, you need to buy an electric car because it’s making cars others are buying too expensive (just a hypothetical example)


    Well… that’s like... your opinion, man. ;)
    If it’s unconstitutional how is wanting the justices to not be an activist and put their ideology aside and rule it so, be acting like a hypocrite?
    What makes the health system in this country tick is insurance. Which means you often get the following relationship:
    Employee provides services to the employer.
    Employer, as part of employee's compensation, pays for insurance coverage for employee.
    Insurance company, paid (in part) by employer, provides insurance coverage to employee. Which means...
    Insurance company pays doctor's office for health care provided by doctor but...
    Health care is received by employee.

    It's not obvious that it *should* be that complicated, and it may be that that way is not ideal. But in the real world this is often how it works. And that, to my mind, is why it's less like broccoli and more like civil rights or the Great Depression or other systemic problems: It's just too complicated for a simple solution.

    I don't have to like broccoli but I also don't have to eat it. But eventually I *will* need medical care, and somebody will have to pick up the tab.

    As to whether it's really a problem, well, I didn't know people weren't aware of this, but the cost of medical care has been rising disproportionately for some time:
    Health_costs_USA_GDP.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fanatic View Post
    You'll get no argument from me on this as this has been the trend for quite some time which is why the government has been trying to address the issue for quite some time as well.
    Doesn't mean that the ways they try and address it and changes they seem to want to incorporate from one administration to the next are the appropriate way to do it either.
    There's stuff in there that I and many others are in favor of, and stuff that many are not.

    Seems we've been given a choice with this thing which is all or nothing which many are opposed to.

    Just because something's broke doesn't mean you scrap the whole thing or a good deal of the existing methods and replace it with stuff that will cause it's own set of problems which is what a lot of people think or see happening.



    Doing that would require the Supreme Court to read the entire bill (2700 pages) and pick and choose what they feel is appropriate and legal, and what is not.
    They've basically already said they aren't doing that and it's not their job to do it.

    According to the side of the aisle that is in favor of the healthcare act, gutting it (primarily the mandate part) pretty much renders the rest unobtainable and can't survive without the mandate.
    I'm not going to debate about whether this was the ideal formulation for addressing the health care crisis in this country. Like almost every bit of legislation involving something controversial, compromises were made along the way and I doubt you would find a single person who would call it ideal.

    We're in crisis. If the Supreme Court throws out the law, no matter how artfully the opinion is worded, no matter how ironclad the legal reasoning, I fear it will be twenty or more years before we can take another swing at this issue.

    One of the dumbest things about contemporary health care in this country is that people will end up not being insured and then needing health care anyway, which leads to money coming out of my pocket to pay for them. And it leads to people not getting preventative care, and it leads to long lines at the ER, as others have recently pointed out in this thread.

    Frustrating, too, because some of those people are too proud or too foolish to realize that's inevitable, and here I am taking care of myself and my family as best I can with proper insurance.

    I don't care about the moron riding around on a motorcycle with no helmet, but we all pay for the ambulance and hospital stay when it turns out he's uninsured. If that moron was required to have health insurance then it would mean he was paying into the system, and the burden would not be on me to, metaphorically, drive him to the hospital and perform the surgery on his smooth brain.

    I also don't care much to hang out in this subforum; these debates often get sour quickly. Thank you to you guys for responding positively to my post but as soon as possible I'm going to forget (again) that this forum is here.

    I'm all about the .

    Last edited by festivus; 04-03-2012 at 04:29 PM. Reason: formatting issues
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.





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