Was our offense really that bad this season?

**BleedPurple92** · 01-24-2012, 06:43 PM

Lets me start by saying, i could go either way with the Cam situation.

That said, look at it from a Micro perspective.

Prior to this season, i don't recall anyone bitching about Cam like they did this season. I was of the assumption that we were happy with how the offense was progressing with Joe at the helm.

That said. This season we saw new faces in the offense, and an overturn like no other team had to face.

We got rid of our #1 TE, our arguably #1 Receiver for the past 3 seasons. We also got a New LT.

Going by the weapons we have, and their experience either in the league, or in this offense, its actually shocking that we didn't struggle more.

Boldin-2nd year in offense
Torrey Smith-Rookie
LaQuan Williams-For a long span there he was playing quite a bit..Rookie.
Ed Dickson-2nd year player(might as well be a rookie)
Pitta- Might as well be a rookie
Leach-1st year in offense

Joe didn't have a Receiver he's had more than 2 seasons with.

BTW we were 4th in the AFC in PPG

Now i know we had the whole thing of Passing it too much, and who can forget end arounds. I wonder if all that wasn't Cam trying to figure out what he had on this offense early in the season. We had so many new players, i can understand why he'd want to throw it quite a bit to see their strengths weaknesses, and for Joe to get used to them. We wouldn't have known what we had in Torrey Smith if Evans didn't go down, and if we didn't throw it 37 times vs St Louis.

I'm gonna say this, (NO death threats please...rharris). I would be comfortable with giving Cam another year with this offense. I would love for them to add another big play Receiver. This offense has potential. With Joe at the helm, and yes with Cam, it could be a good offense.

All that said we we're 1 dropped pass away from going to the Superbowl with Horrible Cam... He cant be that bad, if that's the case right? Lets not act like he had Randy moss, and Rice at Receiver, and still couldn't pull off a good offense.

That said, i wont lose sleep if Cam is fired, I just don't hate the guy, its almost like blaming 1 guy for whatever problems we had. If you're gonna release Cam, Release Dickson/Torrey, they didn't help with their Drops. The oline was shit this year, they could have blocked better, and Joe had his bad games as well.

**arnie_uk** · 01-24-2012, 06:57 PM

hes too inconsistent and stubborn thats my problem. How can you call a great game like the steelers week one, then agaisnt jax run the ball like 6 times? thats the inconsistency

The stubbornness is not changing the game plan. Eg Texans playoff game. we were getting owned at the LOS and he still had long developing routes until late in the game when we had a couple slants and screens. If the texans had schuab it would have been too late.

Give credit were its due, he called a good game against the pats, except that draw on 3rd down.. he may just have saved his ass.

I just wouldnt want him here if joe isnt happy becuase he is our franchise QB, i think even you will admit that now bleed?

**Haloti92** · 01-24-2012, 07:05 PM

He called a good game vs the Patriots after completely wasting the 1st quarter. Complete waste. Three heinous 3 and outs to start the game vs that defense was inexcusable. It was a minor miracle we were only 3 points down after that quarter.

The offense underperformed its talent. It underperformed in the AFCC game also. 20 points isn't cutting it vs NE.

There is no doubt we possibly could replace Cam with someone worse, but I think it is time for a change.

**srobert96** · 01-24-2012, 07:06 PM

I think most people were calling for Cam's head before the season. They understood it was not going to happen because of the compressed prep time due to the lockout. If the rumors of tension between Cam and Joe is accurate than he needs to go. Bottom line is that Joe is the future of the Ravens and they need someone that can take him to the next level. The Offense was very inconsistent. The play calling by all accounts was predictable and not very creative. He has had a few good games here and there but as whole it has not been good.

I understand what you are saying in regards to the personnel but it is the issues beyond that.

**pickles** · 01-24-2012, 07:06 PM

I'll second alot of this.

1) I don't care if he does or doesn't come back; I'll leave that to qualified pros to determine, not a bunch of message board analysts.

2) The offense wasn't bad; it was average.

Now this deserves more talking about. Many times people would rant and rave about the offense, and then somebody would point out by stats, yardage and points, they weren't bad, they were average. And then it would become, well they should be better with their talent.

I don't think I agree w this idea that the Ravens had a ton of O talent that was wasted. IMO, we have one elite level skill player, Ray Rice. We have one elite level lineman, Yanda, and he's a guard at that. This isn't some great amount of talent.

We have an average O-line. That struggled w passing blocking at times.

For the vast majority of the year, we had 2, count 'em, 2, NFL caliber WRs dressing for games. And one of those was a rookie. And the other one, God bless Anquan, isn't a superstar. He's a fine reciever, but he isn't elite. And the rookie had a fine season, surpassing my expectations for him easily, but he struggled some w the dropsies at times, and isn't a "complete" receiver yet.

We have a good tandem of TEs, but neither of them is a very good blocker, and one of them struggles to catch balls thrown his way w the type of consistency he should have.

And we have a good, but not great, QB, who is still in many ways coming into his own.

I just don't see this wealth of talent, so to have been an average offense, against the level of competition we faced, and the style of conservatism we show which directly accounts for victories imo, is nothing at all to be ashamed about.

So, I guess in short, I thought Cam did an acceptable job this year. I think he could do a better job of course, but I also don't think getting rid of him is a panacea. In fact, we could easily do alot worse, and that's something that needs to be considered by people.

If you want to improve this offense I think we need to:

1) Modify the scheme some. A big thing I want to see is more movement of the pocket. We have an oline that strugges w the pass block at times, and a QB who is more than capable of doing it, so we should look to incorporate that.

2) Upgrade the O-line. This is easier said than done. With cap concerns and where we're drafting and our other needs, I don't know exactly how they can do it, but I'd like to see them try.

3) Get another playmaker at either WR or TE, preferabbly an outside WR, so we can move Boldin in the slot when we go 3 wide.

**BleedPurple92** · 01-24-2012, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

hes too inconsistent and stubborn thats my problem. How can you call a great game like the steelers week one, then agaisnt jax run the ball like 6 times? thats the inconsistency

The stubbornness is not changing the game plan. Eg Texans playoff game. we were getting owned at the LOS and he still had long developing routes until late in the game when we had a couple slants and screens. If the texans had schuab it would have been too late.

Give credit were its due, he called a good game against the pats, except that draw on 3rd down.. he may just have saved his ass.

I just wouldnt want him here if joe isnt happy becuase he is our franchise QB, i think even you will admit that now bleed?

You say that like i never thought Joe was the Franchise QB. He's the Franchise QB, always thought that, just thought he could have played a lot better to go along with that. He's our guy, he's my guy.

Back to Cam, i think every offense goes through what we went to to start the season, as in throwing it a lot. Look at the Falcons, Look at the Steelers. The falcons were like that at one point throwing it a lot. At some point you have to know what you have in your QB, and weapons. I know it came at losses, but i understand his reasoning. Was it right or wrong, well in today's NFL, if it doesn't work its wrong, if it works, its right.

Was he ever like this? the prior 3 years? throwing it a lot? I thought last year especially he called a lot of good games, everyone got their touches everyone was happy.

IDK i believe he's a good OC. I believe in what he did in SD, as in leading the league in scoring, and all the great things they did. He even got a HC Job off that. Experience isn't the issue.

I'm just not willing to say he's a bad OC, i hope he gets fired. I dont think its that black and white. Big picture this offense was young, inexperienced, you didn't know what you had in your players.

I hope harbs, Biscuit, and whoever else use the Big picture approach with Cam. What happened, that lead to this, or what the reasoning were. Talk to the players, things like that. I hope they just don't go with the popular consensus. If they end up firing him after doing their due diligence then so be it.

Also let me add that the Draw on 3rd down, was done vs the colts as well, and it worked perfectly. Dont remember anyone saying anything about that. Fact is, it was horribly blocked, Wilfork blew that play up. Great play on his part, bad blocking on our part, it happens.

**pickles** · 01-24-2012, 07:09 PM

And I'll add because others have brought it up, IF it's true that Flacco and CC don't see eye to eye, and not just because Flacco wants to throw the ball more either, then CC should go.

**BleedPurple92** · 01-24-2012, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by pickles

And I'll add because others have brought it up, IF it's true that Flacco and CC don't see eye to eye, and not just because Flacco wants to throw the ball more either, then CC should go.

That's something else... I was listening to John Eisenberg, and he was saying that things aren't nearly as bad as what people want to make it out to be with Cam, and Joe.

I think a lot of that is, let me pick my words correctly. The first hint of division, the hardcore Anti Cam camp ran with it.. as to say.. "See, if Joe hates him, he has to go".

I really don't think it was as bad as people made it out to be. They will have to look into that, have an honest conversation with Joe, see what he's feeling.

**pickles** · 01-24-2012, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by BleedPurple92

That's something else... I was listening to John Eisenberg, and he was saying that things aren't nearly as bad as what people want to make it out to be with Cam, and Joe.

I think a lot of that is, let me pick my words correctly. The first hint of division, the hardcore Anti Cam camp ran with it.. as to say.. "See, if Joe hates him, he has to go".

I really don't think it was as bad as people made it out to be. They will have to look into that, have an honest conversation with Joe, see what he's feeling.

Yeah, I don't know if we've ever heard from somewhere I consider credible that Flacco and CC don't see eye to eye.

It seems alot of message board intrigue to me- or at least that it is possible that it is.

But if it is true, then yeah, you keep the franchise QB, not the OC. That's common sense.

**arnie_uk** · 01-24-2012, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by BleedPurple92

You say that like i never thought Joe was the Franchise QB. He's the Franchise QB, always thought that, just thought he could have played a lot better to go along with that. He's our guy, he's my guy.

Back to Cam, i think every offense goes through what we went to to start the season, as in throwing it a lot. Look at the Falcons, Look at the Steelers. The falcons were like that at one point throwing it a lot. At some point you have to know what you have in your QB, and weapons. I know it came at losses, but i understand his reasoning. Was it right or wrong, well in today's NFL, if it doesn't work its wrong, if it works, its right.

Was he ever like this? the prior 3 years? throwing it a lot? I thought last year especially he called a lot of good games, everyone got their touches everyone was happy.

IDK i believe he's a good OC. I believe in what he did in SD, as in leading the league in scoring, and all the great things they did. He even got a HC Job off that. Experience isn't the issue.

I'm just not willing to say he's a bad OC, i hope he gets fired. I dont think its that black and white. Big picture this offense was young, inexperienced, you didn't know what you had in your players.

I hope harbs, Biscuit, and whoever else use the Big picture approach with Cam. What happened, that lead to this, or what the reasoning were. Talk to the players, things like that. I hope they just don't go with the popular consensus. If they end up firing him after doing their due diligence then so be it.

Also let me add that the Draw on 3rd down, was done vs the colts as well, and it worked perfectly. Dont remember anyone saying anything about that. Fact is, it was horribly blocked, Wilfork blew that play up. Great play on his part, bad blocking on our part, it happens.

aw you know what i meant bleed lol.

If we stick with him, if if if, we need to draft ffloyd/jeffery/sanu or sign a big name WR that can help with this style of offense, a dwayne bowe or Vjax type. and we need to look long and hard at our Oline, LT, LG (if grubbs goes) and C... Our Oline cant hold up well enough for the routes to develop, and our WR pesonell, excluding torrey isnt built for the style.

Joe however is, he has imo, the 2nd best deep ball in the league to A Rod, the biggest arm in the league, no doubt in my mind. He just needs the personell around him. A big target WR like mentioned to partner torrey, with boldin/evans/doss in the slot, a deep threat TE, a sure handed TE, a RB than can catch out of the backfield. We have all the weapons, except that big jump ball great handed quick target.

But we also need the Oline to block, so look towards Konz, Brewster, Blake, Valchos, Jones at center in the draft, Adams, Potter, Reynolds at LT in the draft, Demetrius Bell LT in FA possibly, then the WRs i mentioned.

i would go WR, LT C with our first three picks to sort this offensive out if we keep cam.

Get him the people to make the system work

**BcRaven** · 01-24-2012, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by BleedPurple92

That's something else... I was listening to John Eisenberg, and he was saying that things aren't nearly as bad as what people want to make it out to be with Cam, and Joe.

I think a lot of that is, let me pick my words correctly. The first hint of division, the hardcore Anti Cam camp ran with it.. as to say.. "See, if Joe hates him, he has to go".

I really don't think it was as bad as people made it out to be. They will have to look into that, have an honest conversation with Joe, see what he's feeling.

IMO with our offensive assets, we should have scored more points. It doesn't get simpler than that. Cam has to go, and somebody who can elevate Flacco's game has to come in. Any reason for Ozzie and Co. to get more complicated than that ? ... Bc

**BleedPurple92** · 01-24-2012, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

aw you know what i meant bleed lol.

If we stick with him, if if if, we need to draft ffloyd/jeffery/sanu or sign a big name WR that can help with this style of offense, a dwayne bowe or Vjax type. and we need to look long and hard at our Oline, LT, LG (if grubbs goes) and C... Our Oline cant hold up well enough for the routes to develop, and our WR pesonell, excluding torrey isnt built for the style.

Joe however is, he has imo, the 2nd best deep ball in the league to A Rod, the biggest arm in the league, no doubt in my mind. He just needs the personell around him. A big target WR like mentioned to partner torrey, with boldin/evans/doss in the slot, a deep threat TE, a sure handed TE, a RB than can catch out of the backfield. We have all the weapons, except that big jump ball great handed quick target.

But we also need the Oline to block, so look towards Konz, Brewster, Blake, Valchos, Jones at center in the draft, Adams, Potter, Reynolds at LT in the draft, Demetrius Bell LT in FA possibly, then the WRs i mentioned.

i would go WR, LT C with our first three picks to sort this offensive out if we keep cam.

Get him the people to make the system work

The thing i love about Joe's Deep ball is, he puts air under it.

Which means a big guy, can just treat it like a Rebound.... Can you Imagine a guy like Jeffery's or Floyd in this offense??

<----It would be absolutely disgusting.

Not like Torrey where you have to throw a ball he runs under, i honestly don't think that's Joe's strength in a deep ball, he does it but i don't think its his strength. Whenever its single coverage on one of those guy's side. Just chuck it deep, let him go get it. Its almost automatic. I'm salivating just thinking about it.

Here's my Dream draft, and offseason Move for this offense.

Jeffery/Floyd in the first, and a TE later in the draft.

I think the line we have is fine, to be honest with you, i have faith in Gurode. Dont forget WEEK 1. Was the first time this group every played together. lol I really don't think its as big a need.

Also get Joe a Fucking QB Coach!!!!