Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 25 to 36 of 45
  1. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pahrump, NV
    Posts
    303

    Re: Obama's (and the DNC's) worst nightmare.

    When you truly understand their religion you know it is not conducive to following the Constitution. We are in a war and the majority of Liberals don't even know it. Just like in the early '80's when this country was in an economic war with Japan, we are in a religious war reminiscent of the Crusades with Islam.
    “Ed Reed for President! I figure if Ed Reed can get eight interceptions in 10 games, he can fix world peace." - Jameel McClain





  2. #26

    Re: Obama's (and the DNC's) worst nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by TLaMana View Post
    When you truly understand their religion you know it is not conducive to following the Constitution. We are in a war and the majority of Liberals don't even know it. Just like in the early '80's when this country was in an economic war with Japan, we are in a religious war reminiscent of the Crusades with Islam.
    Perhaps that's why less than 1% of the world's practitioners of Islam live in the United States. Yet that still amasses 2 million people (roughly the population of Chicago), who by in large live in accordance with American law, and are held accountable by the justice system in the instances in which they don't.

    Nevertheless, I believe it is YOU who does not understand the Muslim faith, or more broadly all religion in general. You believe "we are at war with Islam", but no credible person has ever made such an asinine assertion, because it is in fact entirely untrue. Not even the easiest "liberal" target on the planet, George W. Bush would make such a claim - in fact he went out of his way to emphatically state the opposite.

    What we are at war with is violence and violent ideology, a manageable but largely unwinnable struggle that will most likely last until the end of time.

    Let me ask you this TL; Assuming of course that you are a Christian, do you consider yourself to be a hateful person? Do you openly use anti-homosexual slurs? Do you protest soldiers funerals for publicity? I would imagine that the answer in each case is no.

    But the problem is, I look at the Westboro Baptist Church, and see that they are Christians. And those guys are holding up signs at funerals that say "God Hates Fags," and that celebrate the deaths of American soldiers in the name of God. And you're a Christian too, right? So shouldn't I just assume that you feel that way too? Is that wrong of me to assume?

    Islam is as diverse and polarized within itself as Christianity or Judaism is, if not more so - after all, it's hard enough to find TWO people who think exactly alike, let alone a billion people spread across the globe. This is the fundamental point that makes you far less aware of the relationship between the United States and Islam than you believe yourself to be.

    You choose not to take peaceful Muslims at their word. So why in the world should you then expect that they afford you the same benefit of the doubt? Until you open your mind, the world will be closed to you my friend.

    It's not exactly ground-breaking film, but I really enjoyed Morgan Spurlock's "Where in the World is Osama bin Laden?" Not at all for his novice input or futile and somewhat comedic "search" for the terrorist, but instead for the fascinating diversity of Islamic perspectives of America and the west, a range of opinions that closely resembles the diversity of perspectives Americans have with respect to Islam and the Middle East.

    Notably:
    -50:17
    -1:13:58
    -1:17:38

    We're nowhere near as different as you seem to think. While you complain about a down economy, these people complain about shelter and drinking water.
    Last edited by TheExtraPoint; 04-02-2011 at 04:05 PM.





  3. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pahrump, NV
    Posts
    303

    Re: Obama's (and the DNC's) worst nightmare.

    A: I am not Christian

    B: If you understood the Koran you would know what I said is true.
    “Ed Reed for President! I figure if Ed Reed can get eight interceptions in 10 games, he can fix world peace." - Jameel McClain





  4. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southern PA
    Posts
    6,854
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Obama's (and the DNC's) worst nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    But the problem is, I look at the Westboro Baptist Church, and see that they are Christians.
    Actually, I think they're tax evaders using the tax-exempt status that places of worship receive. Seriously. They may act like they're a church but its all for show IMO...





  5. #29

    Re: Obama's (and the DNC's) worst nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by TLaMana View Post
    A: I am not Christian

    B: If you understood the Koran you would know what I said is true.
    Fair enough. I shouldn't have assumed such. I apologize for that.

    But I don't believe the Qur'an is something that is understood. It is something that is interpreted. There's an important distinction there, one that applies to all religions in their approach to their respective religious text.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    Actually, I think they're tax evaders using the tax-exempt status that places of worship receive. Seriously. They may act like they're a church but its all for show IMO...
    That's entirely possible 4G. Still, they represent themselves publicly as members of the Baptists church, and as Christians. Whatever they're motivations, it would be incredibly dangerous for me to assume that these people represent a far broader, peaceful religion. I know far better, as do you.

    But I also think that there are parallels between their extreme interpretation of the Bible and the and the extreme interpretation by radical Islam of the Qur'an - emphasis on the word "extreme". This is at the root of the word "extremism," which is precisely what we're up against.

    I get uncomfortable with any types of generalizations - especially when it involves applications of individual actions to a wide swath of loosely-related people. There are all different types of people and perspectives beneath the umbrella of each and every religion. That is generally understood and accepted with respect to Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, et all, but in these types of discussions, Islam is often times painted with a broad brush, which I think is unfortunate and misguided.





  6. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pahrump, NV
    Posts
    303

    Re: Obama's (and the DNC's) worst nightmare.

    When it is specified that newer text supplants the old then you can gut out the majority of it and have a true understanding. All the peace and love parts are older. The take over the world and kill off the infidels part is the new stuff. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
    “Ed Reed for President! I figure if Ed Reed can get eight interceptions in 10 games, he can fix world peace." - Jameel McClain





  7. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southern PA
    Posts
    6,854
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Obama's (and the DNC's) worst nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    I get uncomfortable with any types of generalizations - especially when it involves applications of individual actions to a wide swath of loosely-related people. There are all different types of people and perspectives beneath the umbrella of each and every religion. That is generally understood and accepted with respect to Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, et all, but in these types of discussions, Islam is often times painted with a broad brush, which I think is unfortunate and misguided.
    The Religion of Peace?

    You don't see leaders of other religions anywhere in the world tell their followers to kill people because their sacred relic was defamed or destroyed.





  8. #32

    Re: Obama's (and the DNC's) worst nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    The Religion of Peace?

    You don't see leaders of other religions anywhere in the world tell their followers to kill people because their sacred relic was defamed or destroyed.
    It's funny. You read the articles YOU provided and somehow find that these people were incited by one of the many thousands of religious authorities in Islam. In some instances, these authorities do encourage violence. THAT is radical.

    But here's what I read in the articles you provided:

    Gov. Atta Muhammad Noor of Balkh Province, of which Mazar-i-Sharif is the capital, also blamed what he said were Taliban infiltrators among the crowd for urging violence and even distributing weapons; he said 27 suspects were arrested on charges of inciting violence, some from Kandahar and other provinces where Taliban are more common.
    Friday’s episode began when three mullahs, addressing worshipers at Friday Prayer inside the Blue Mosque here, one of Afghanistan’s holiest places, urged people to take to the streets to agitate for the arrest of Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who oversaw the burning of a Koran on March 20.

    Otherwise, said the most prominent of them, Mullah Mohammed Shah Adeli, Afghanistan should cut off relations with the United States. “Burning the Koran is an insult to Islam, and those who committed it should be punished,” he said.
    A prominent Afghan cleric, Mullah Qyamudin Kashaf, the acting head of the influential Ulema Council of Afghanistan and a Karzai appointee, also called for American authorities to arrest and try Mr. Jones in the Koran burning.
    Mohammad Azim, a businessman in Mazer-i-Sharif, said that clerics with loudspeakers drove around the city in two cars on Thursday to invite residents to the protest. After Friday prayers at a large blue mosque in the city center, clerics again called on worshippers to attend a peaceful protest.
    Finally, the most important quote of all, from "Pastor" Terry Jones.

    Mr. Jones was unrepentant. “We must hold these countries and people accountable for what they have done as well as for any excuses they may use to promote their terrorist activities,” he said in a statement. “Islam is not a religion of peace. It is time that we call these people to accountability.”
    Except what they have done was precipitated by what YOU have done, Mr. Jones. You knew the result, provoked it, got it, and then think that somehow proves your point? When in reality, this is simple causation - without the burning of the Qur'an, none of this happens. End of story.

    Personally, I think Terry Jones perpetrated a hate crime, and should be charged with one. If that isn't a hate crime, the legislation in this country isn't nearly strong enough. The man has blood on his hands, whether or not he chooses to acknowledge it.
    Last edited by TheExtraPoint; 04-03-2011 at 12:36 PM.





  9. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southern PA
    Posts
    6,854
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Obama's (and the DNC's) worst nightmare.

    I guess you didn't read the 1st paragraph of the NYT piece:

    MAZAR-I-SHARIF, Afghanistan — Stirred up by three angry mullahs who urged them to avenge the burning of a Koran at a Florida church, thousands of protesters on Friday overran the compound of the United Nations in this northern Afghan city, killing at least 12 people, Afghan and United Nations officials said...

    ...Friday’s episode began when three mullahs, addressing worshipers at Friday Prayer inside the Blue Mosque here, one of Afghanistan’s holiest places, urged people to take to the streets to agitate for the arrest of Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who oversaw the burning of a Koran on March 20...
    Hate to break it to you but Terry Jones didn't kill anyone; the Muslims in Afghanistan killed the UN workers. They, and those who incite such irrational violence, are the ones who are responsible. He burned bound paper printed with ink. Terry Jones is an asshole for what he did but he has every right to do what he did to the Quran. That's what separates us from those that reside under totalitarian regimes. Terry Jones, while his method may be deplorable, proved his point. Islam is NOT an open nor fair religion.

    When you have to worry that any action you do may incite violence somewhere around the world, you have no freedom of speech. To say otherwise stands against what this country was founded on.

    Continued from the NYT article:
    "Afghanistan, deeply religious and reflexively volatile, has long been highly reactive to perceived insults against Islam. When a Danish cartoonist lampooned the Prophet Muhammad, four people were killed in riots in Afghanistan within days in 2006. The year before, a one-paragraph item in Newsweek alleging that guards at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, had flushed a Koran down the toilet set off three days of riots that left 14 people dead in Afghanistan..."
    Religion of Peace indeed.
    Last edited by 4G63; 04-03-2011 at 04:30 PM.





  10. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    21,926
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Obama's (and the DNC's) worst nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    Except what they have done was precipitated by what YOU have done, Mr. Jones. You knew the result, provoked it, got it, and then think that somehow proves your point? When in reality, this is simple causation - without the burning of the Qur'an, none of this happens. End of story.


    Seriously??? You don't really mean this... Terry Jones is a tool but he didn't put a gun to anyone's head and make them kill people. Honestly, I am having such a hard time trying to understand the train of thought here, I feel it's almost like blaming a women who was raped for were provocative clothing in a bad part of town,

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    Personally, I think Terry Jones perpetrated a hate crime, and should be charged with one. If that isn't a hate crime, the legislation in this country isn't nearly strong enough. The man has blood on his hands, whether or not he chooses to acknowledge it.
    What crime did Terry Jones commit? How does he have blood on his hands? Even if this outcome was known before hand at the very least you're acknowledging these are not peaceful people.





  11. #35

    Re: Obama's (and the DNC's) worst nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post


    Seriously??? You don't really mean this... Terry Jones is a tool but he didn't put a gun to anyone's head and make them kill people. Honestly, I am having such a hard time trying to understand the train of thought here, I feel it's almost like blaming a women who was raped for were provocative clothing in a bad part of town,
    If I follow correctly, you are equating Terry Jones and Wayne Sapp with rape victims? If so, that's some impressive stuff.

    I meant exactly what I wrote. Without these men burning the Qur'an, 12 innocent UN workers are not dead today. How is that inaccurate?

    What crime did Terry Jones commit? How does he have blood on his hands? Even if this outcome was known before hand at the very least you're acknowledging these are not peaceful people.
    The Supreme Court articulates that the only instance in which incitement can be considered criminal is when it brings about the likelihood of imminent violence. I think this case meets that standard, but I'm also not a prosecutor, and these cases are unfortunately very difficult to prosecute, especially when they do not involve speech so much as they do an action.

    I don't know the legal merits because I'm not a lawyer. But as a human being, I think what these men did SHOULD qualify as a hate crime by the standard of common sense, whether or not it does in a legal realm. In attempting to prove a point about radical Islam, they brought about precisely the violent action they claim to abhor.

    Based on what I've read and heard, there is no question in my mind that these gentleman knew what the result of their actions would be, and as such (IMO) have blood of innocent UN workers on their hands. Osama bin Laden didn't kill anyone on 9/11, but he certainly has blood on his hands, right? You don't necessarily have to kill someone to bear some level of responsibility for that murder - that's why we have the accessory charge here in the States.

    I never once denied that there is a radical, violent element of Islam. Who in their right mind would? At the same time, I refuse to hold all Muslims accountable for the actions of a relative few. One billion people - only a small handful have so far reacted violently. 99.9%, over a billion Muslims here and elsewhere have reacted with admirable and appropriate restraint given the blatant provocation by these two "pastors" in Florida.

    The actions of these two men are no more representative of Christianity than these murders in Afghanistan are representative of Islam. That's my view.

    What's more, the actions of a given group of Muslims does not necessarily reflect what Islam at at its core preaches. People of all faiths have committed murder, and in the overwhelming majority of these circumstances, the justification for violence simply does not exist, either in their religious text, or in a legal sense. And this case is no different.

    I'm not in any was excusing their violent acts - simply explaining them as best I understand them. As with almost any criminal act, there is a motive. The motive in this case is retaliation in response to unabashed provocation. BOTH parties are wrong, and IMO, to a criminal extent.

    Like I said before - perhaps the act of burning a Qur'an doesn't meet the legal standard of a hate crime here in the United States. And if that is in fact the case, I believe that standard should be quickly re-assessed. Again, that's IMO.
    Last edited by TheExtraPoint; 04-03-2011 at 11:59 PM.





  12. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pahrump, NV
    Posts
    303

    Re: Obama's (and the DNC's) worst nightmare.

    Just so I understand the PC mindset here.. If you kill Christians and burn down churches that's OK and no one should get upset. Print one picture of Mohammad or burn one Qur'an and we're suppose to bow, scrape and beg forgiveness? I call BS.
    “Ed Reed for President! I figure if Ed Reed can get eight interceptions in 10 games, he can fix world peace." - Jameel McClain





Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Link To Mobile Site
var infolinks_pid = 3297965; var infolinks_wsid = 0; //—->