did mcnair catch the grief flacco does?

[ace2025]

did fans question steve mcnair back in 2006 like they do flacco?i didnt read these boards back then so i dont know.the ravens were 13-3 that year,got the bye(#2 seed) but lost to the colts here.my guess is mcnair was praised that season and everyone thought we would win the super bowl.well if you look at the stats,joe is outpreforming mcnair bigtime and still has 3 games to go.as a matter of fact,mcnair never had a season as good as joe is having in his entire career.i write this in hopes that fans will appreciate what they have in flacco but it probably wont help.they have made up their minds.the saying goes,you dont know what you got until its gone.


games rating comp att pct yds avg/g ypp td int
mcnair/2006-07 Baltimore 16 82.5 295 468 63.0 3050 190.6 6.5 16 12

flacco/2010-11 Baltimore 13 94.0 270 431 62.6 3223 247.9 7.5 21 8

[RavenScallywag]

Let me start off by saying I am not criticizing Flacco. While I think he's not ELITE yet, he's a damn good QB, better than most in the league. He has a few lacking qualities, but he's still improving...

Now, that said, there's a few major differences between the situations...

2006 - Baltimore is coming off a 6-10 season. The season before saw Boller and Anthony Wright splitting the QB job. Jamal played 15 games, but couldn't crack 1000 yards. We had gotten Derrick Mason and Heap had a good year, but our other WRs were absolute junk. McNair comes in to a 6-10 team, with a struggling running game and a still crappy WR corps. The D is still amazing, but our O is in shambles.

2010 - Coming off two straight seasons with at least one playoff victory, a year when RB Ray Rice totalled over 2000 yards from scrimmage, and a year that saw Joe Flacco nearly make the Pro Bowl (ok, granted that was because 5 other QBs bowed out, but his numbers were better than Garrard's, who did make the Pro Bowl). Baltimore brings in Anquan Boldin, TJ Housh, drafts Pitta and Dickson. The goal of this season is "Show us the offense!".

McNair got far less criticism because:
1. We hadn't had any good QBs before him
2. We knew what we were getting from him with his career numbers. Joe is still getting into his potential
3. We weren't expected to suddenly have this great offense, as we were coming off a year with terrible numbers all around. This year, we're coming off a pretty good year on offense
4. We weren't coming into 2006 with much in the way of playoff expectations.

So I think that's why Joe is more under the microscope. Again, I don't blame him for the problems on offense, I think the blame goes more on the OL and Cam's playcalling.

[Kyle Cactus]

_____________________ games _ rating _ comp _ att _ pct ___ yds _ avg/g _ ypp _ td _ int
mcnair/2006-07 Baltimore _ 16 __ 82.5 __ 295 __ 468 _ 63.0 _ 3050 _ 190.6 _ 6.5 _ 16 _ 12
flacco/2010-11 Baltimore _ 13 __ 94.0 __ 270 __ 431 _ 62.6 _ 3223 _ 247.9 _ 7.5 _ 21 _ 8

Stats are a bit more readable. Funny looking, but readable.

Also, I think Scallywag has it right. Coming off a 5-11 season, with a quarterback who had already shown and regeressed beneath his ceiling kept fan expectations at bay. I think we would have just been happy with a playoff appearance that year, which is what we got.

This year, fans want more. We've gone to the playoffs the last two years, and based on our off-season, people expected another step beyond that. When we start to look like a wild card team the easiest things to point to are the quarterback and coaches.

[Beerracuda]

If I remember correctly, McNair, for the first time, finally showed us glimpses what having a decent offense looked like. He had a decent year, and at times was far better than anything we had seen in years past. However, he had very little to throw to, with Mark Clayton, Demetrius Williams, and Clarence Moore to supplement Derrick Mason.

In the playoff game against the Colts, despite us having a 13-3 record, the #2 seed, and playing at home, McNair had one of his worst games of the season, passing 18-29, with 173 yards, and 2 INTs. Jamal only ran for 53 yards that game as well. Most people thought we'd finally get revenge on Indy, but it was not to be, and took many of us a long time to get over that loss.

[FellsPointRaven]

You're comparing apples to oranges a bit here. As Beeracuda said, McNair came in on the back of years of QB futility, most recently by Kyle Boller. That's like a new President coming in after Bush.

The offense was built around Jamal and the power running game. We needed a competent game manager who could make the occasional clutch throw and McNair largely delivered that.

The difference with Flacco is that the weapons added at WR raised expectations about the dynamism of this offense and, being younger and seeing how much potential he possesses, people hold him and the O to a higher standard.

Having said that, McNair received a ton of flak after that Colts playoff game, and rightfully so - it marked the final demise of a once great player and he never looked the same again, with several repeat/worse performances in '07.

[Purple4ever]

You posters are right...heres another reason:

though Joe's passing accomplishments are easily exceeding Steve's, and on balance Joe is a better player than we had in Steve here (and I think Joe still has much more upside that we will see next year and thereafter!)...but what Steve DID have was, he gave the visual appearence of saying "I AM THE GUY IN CHARGE, this is MY game now, just do what I tell you..."

as fans, we are not seeing that kind of outward perception of Joe yet.
Joe may have the same control that steve had, but the fans can't "see" it.
And, it dosen't help Joe that when the offense is on the side lines, he "appears" completely detached in the game taking place on the field.

[baltimore_hokie]

The Ravens have more invested in Flacco in the past (first-round draft pick), present (accounting for much of the success of the offense, especially without much of a running game this year), and future (he's still young and this will be his team for the next decade, like it or not) when compared to McNair (4th round pick in a trade, had a strong running game when he was here, and was only seen as a stop-gap veteran).

[ravensnhokies]

Bmore Hokie... By the way, props out to our Hokies for turning around the season and dominating the ACC this year.

I will say that the Ravens signed McNair to a ridiculously high $$$ contract that hampered our team (Why ---)

Honestly, this year is the best passing season we have ever seen by a Ravens QB in their short history. I know some of you will bring up Vinny's 96, but I'll argue against it strongly. I remember the Ravens being down by 14pts+ in a lot of games so the opposing team played their soft D that gave up a lot of yards but took off a lot of time off the clock. Naturally Vinny piled up the stats. He was good at getting them back in the game but would always throw that killer INT when the game was close. So while, Vinny season was awesome in Fantasy Football World, the Reality is that Joe is compiling a superb season with a 9-4 record... Vinny got a lot yards and TDs but was 4-12.

I think we all could agree that Joe's 2010 could be a lot better, too, but all in all, its a solid season.

[Jeremiah W]

Yes.

[WxKevin]

There are quite a few people on this board who constantly criticize something about the Ravens regardless of the situation. There were plenty of people who criticized McNair during that season. Some people are not happy unless they are bitching about the Ravens in some way.

I try to read many of the posts on this board but sometimes I have check to ensure I am on a Ravens board and not on a board of a team that is 1-12. :grbac:

[RavinDonnie]

did fans question steve mcnair back in 2006 like they do flacco?i didnt read these boards back then so i dont know.the ravens were 13-3 that year,got the bye(#2 seed) but lost to the colts here.my guess is mcnair was praised that season and everyone thought we would win the super bowl.well if you look at the stats,joe is outpreforming mcnair bigtime and still has 3 games to go.as a matter of fact,mcnair never had a season as good as joe is having in his entire career.i write this in hopes that fans will appreciate what they have in flacco but it probably wont help.they have made up their minds.the saying goes,you dont know what you got until its gone.


games rating comp att pct yds avg/g ypp td int
mcnair/2006-07 Baltimore 16 82.5 295 468 63.0 3050 190.6 6.5 16 12

flacco/2010-11 Baltimore 13 94.0 270 431 62.6 3223 247.9 7.5 21 8

Yes, in fact it was worse. Went something like this...all McNair does is dink and dunk hon. We ain't gonna win nuthin' wif this offense thats as flat as an arn board.

Billick must go! McNair is towst hon.

First six games Ravens were 4-2 and all you heard was we ain't beat no one hon!

Dinkin' and dunkin ain't gonna beat no one...Jamal is dancin' hon. He ain't hit no holes or run hard.

Ogden is lazy hon, he don't want to play no more.

Pretty much how it went, it's at that point I realized how awful Baltimore fans are.

[Corey]

You posters are right...heres another reason:

though Joe's passing accomplishments are easily exceeding Steve's, and on balance Joe is a better player than we had in Steve here (and I think Joe still has much more upside that we will see next year and thereafter!)...but what Steve DID have was, he gave the visual appearence of saying "I AM THE GUY IN CHARGE, this is MY game now, just do what I tell you..."

as fans, we are not seeing that kind of outward perception of Joe yet.
Joe may have the same control that steve had, but the fans can't "see" it.
And, it dosen't help Joe that when the offense is on the side lines, he "appears" completely detached in the game taking place on the field.

Part of the problem is the Baltimore media's perception of Joe. The way they've painted him its hard to imagine him as this fiery leader.

During the game Monday night. Housh was seen yelling at the ref because he didnt draw a flag ( which he should have) and the next snap shot showed Flacco yelling in TJ's direction to come on and get in the huddle. He looked really irked by it. I half expected him and TJ to exchange words.