The 2010 Talent Myth

**Galen Sevinne** · 12-14-2010, 11:28 PM

I keep hearing over and over again how talented this 2010 Ravens team is and any result deviating from perfection is coaching. Consider the following positions and think about the talent level of those players.

1. Middle linebacker: Yeah we all love Ray and he is the heart and soul of the organization. In the last couple years, he seems to grow weary around midseason and is often 5 yards off the ball being pushed backwards. The Ellerbe/Gooden/McClean experiment has been a disaster with neither player showing any consistency.

2. Safety: Ed Reed's career has been over now for two years. Aside from the couple picks he made in the first couple weeks back this season, he has been consistently beaten. At least two touchdowns last night were his coverage. He plays 20 yards deep now and is rarely seen around the line of scrimmage where the action takes place. Dwan Landry would be a back up player in most NFL teams especially those in current contention. With these two guys, the Ravens are unable to play a competitive zone defense which is the prudent choice when a team is up by 21 in the second half.

3. Offensive Line: Oher at LT has been dismal at best. Chester at RG has been dismal. Aside from Yanda who has held his own at LT and Grubbs who is maybe the only guy on the OL that is playing his position as a "true talent", the OL has been the biggest disappointment out of any position all year. At the time of the OTA's, the OL was seen as possibly the best in the NFL but their caliber of play since Gaither tapped out before the fight even began has stifled the run and allowed opposing teams to blitz at will against Flacco.

Without the linebacking presence in the middle and the safety coverage over the top, this defense is vulnerable to offenses that choose to go wide open against the Ravens. Without a solid OL, any talent at the scoring positions is extremely compromised.

This is a talent issue and to keep pushing the "we are so talented" and blaming the coaches for everything is ignoring the elephant. Sure we do have some talent...an anxiety yielding 9-4 worth of it. We are exactly what we see us as being. Enjoy the wins. This team with significant gaps in talent has earned 9 wins which only 4 of the other 31 teams in the NFL have been able to win more.

For the record, I am critical of Cam for not trying to burn more clock at the end of the two games by running the ball at key points. Going against the trend has only pointed to why there is a trend in the first place. Without an offensive line, it becomes risky to keep dropping Joe back more then is necessary.

**Carey** · 12-14-2010, 11:47 PM

Add Defensive line to that, Gregg and Mckinney have been pedestrian at best and have seen their snaps cut, Cody cant get on the field, Kruger is all motor but still has the training wheels on as far as being a productive NFL player, Redding is just about the most athletic of a group that is alarmingly unathletic and i think he's gotten snaps more by default then by impact play.

**Galen Sevinne** · 12-15-2010, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Carey

Add Defensive line to that, Gregg and Mckinney have been pedestrian at best and have seen their snaps cut, Cody cant get on the field, Kruger is all motor but still has the training wheels on as far as being a productive NFL player, Redding is just about the most athletic of a group that is alarmingly unathletic and i think he's gotten snaps more by default then by impact play.

Yeah I was trying to keep the idea as simple as possible but you are right. Maybe before the DL even I would add the disappointing draft this past year with Cody and Sergio. These guys were also see as part of the "2010 talent" which has not come through.

**Jeremiah W** · 12-15-2010, 12:44 AM

Come on. Maybe the fact that we had more former probowlers than any team over inflated expectations, but the Ravens did get to 9 and 4. They have not been blown out, but have blown the lead in all 4 losses.

The Ravens are not the best team in the NFL, but they are top 5 in the AFC.
I really think that if Gaither had been healthy, the run game would have powered us to put away all 4 of those losses, or at least 2 of them for sure and there would not be any of this BS about how the talent level was a myth.

**davver** · 12-15-2010, 01:49 AM

AGREED!

The loss of Gaither is the worst. Not just the loss of one person, but the fact that he strung us along until mid season after we couldn't go out and get anyone else. As a result we had to move Oher to LT because the position is too important, but he's not a natural LT. He is a mauler, not a finesse guy, and he was a good RT last year but mediocre LT this year. Yanda has filled in admirably at RT but once again is playing out of position. He's the kind of big strong guy we need pulling at guard. Chester has always been nothing more then backup level talent who doesn't have the size to play guard or the talent to play tackle. Ditto for Cousins. I appreciate the ravens trying to move guys around this weak by getting Yanda back at guard to try and light a spark but Chester and Cousins just aren't good enough.

Our WR core got better and Flacco got better (much better, lets give the guy credit for a change). But the O line offsets all that.

We aged another year on defense. Supposedly out high draft picks were suppose to get the defense younger, but Kindle fell down the freaking stairs and Cheeseburger can't stay in shape enough to get on the field.

So what are we? About as talented as last year. We got 9 wins last year and I always thought we were an 11 win team that lost a few too many close games. We will get in on the wild card and bust out in the divisional round just like last year.

As Harbaugh said, we are who we are: second tier.

As far as coaching is concerned I consider the Ravens coaches middle of the road mediocrity. There won't be many flashes of brilliance but I don't expect to team to have some huge meltdown either.

**Purpleguy** · 12-15-2010, 01:57 AM

This is such BS. I could make the case that we have never had the talent that we thought we had. Look at all of the defensive players that have left here to do little to nothing on another team. You have Sharper, Hartwell, AD, even Scott has dropped off tremendously. Sam Gash was fat and lazy just like Cody before he got here. Billick coached him up and he was a vital piece of our Superbowl team. Outside of McAlister our corners have never been great. Our o-line used to consist of JO and scrubs, but we still could close out games.

Our problem is the system and the coaching. You never know who is going to be active from one week to the next. Our current top corner didn't even take a snap at the position until the season was half over. He was consistently inactive. What we do have now that we never had is legitimate playmakers on the offense and the best QB this team has ever had, but we are still seeing the same crummy results that Billick got with trash heap guys. At least with Billick we had a power running game to chew up clock.

Just face it. Your boy Harbaugh and his family friends are in over their heads. They can't seem to utilize the true talent they have and they can't coach up the rest of the guys to contribute at a high level.

**davver** · 12-15-2010, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

This is such BS. I could make the case that we have never had the talent that we thought we had. Look at all of the defensive players that have left here to do little to nothing on another team. You have Sharper, Hartwell, AD, even Scott has dropped off tremendously. Sam Gash was fat and lazy just like Cody before he got here. Billick coached him up and he was a vital piece of our Superbowl team. Outside of McAlister our corners have never been great. Our o-line used to consist of JO and scrubs, but we still could close out games.

Our problem is the system and the coaching. You never know who is going to be active from one week to the next. Our current top corner didn't even take a snap at the position until the season was half over. He was consistently inactive. What we do have now that we never had is legitimate playmakers on the offense and the best QB this team has ever had, but we are still seeing the same crummy results that Billick got with trash heap guys. At least with Billick we had a power running game to chew up clock.

Just face it. Your boy Harbaugh and his family friends are in over their heads. They can't seem to utilize the true talent they have and they can't coach up the rest of the guys to contribute at a high level.

Let me get this straight. Lewis and Reed in their primes wasn't enough talent for you? Do you have any idea what kind of talent was on this defense over the last decade?

Do you have any idea what kind of talent was on this defense when it won the SB? Ray Lewis won defensive player of the year. You had HOF Rod Woodson who made a pro-bowl that year. Sam Adams made the pro bowl. Boulware wasn't a pro bowler that year but eventually made 4 of them. McCrary made pro bowls the two years prior. McCalister went on to 3 pro bowls.

AD wasn't a pro bowler that year but eventually was. What, he didn't do as well in NE. Wow, a guy on the wrong side of 30 who gets paid big starts to decline surrounded by inferior players and that decline is exacerbated by injury. That's how it always works.

Our defense today is three guys and a bunch of scrubs. A 35 year old Ray Lewis, Suggs & Ngata who are genuine talent. Ed Reed missed 6 games, is 32, and isn't a great anymore. Their CBs weren't even penciled in as starters at the beginning of the year. Redding, McKinney, Cody, Kruger, what a bunch of no accomplishment scrubs.

Exactly what did Billick accomplish "coaching up" all these guys. From 2001-2007 he won a single wild card playoff game. Harbaugh has tripled that production in two years and we are going back to the playoffs.

OMG we could run the ball and close games out. Well, when your passing production is shit you have no other choice. Let's look at the Ravens offensive production under the "offensive genius":
2000-14th
2001-18th
2002-23rd
2003-8th
2004-20th
2005-25th
2006-12th
2007-24th

Avg: 19th

Now Harbaugh

2008-11th
2009-9th
2010-14th

Avg: 11th

Now have we really put more resources into offense under Harbaugh. Let's look at offensive first round draft picks:

Billick era:
2000 Jamal Lewis-5th
2000 Travis Taylor-10th
2001 Heap-31st
2003 Boller-19th
2005 Clayton-22nd

Harbaugh:
2007 Grubbs-29th
2008 Flacco-18th
2009 Oher-23rd

Pretty equivalent, even if I credit Harbaugh with Grubbs and give Billick a break on a few of his bust picks. I'll even ignore that Billick had Ogden the whole time.

On defense Billick got the benefit of drafting Suggs, Reed, and Ngata not to mention the best years of Ray Lewis's career. The Ravens haven't spent a 1st rounder on defense under Harbaugh's entire tenure. They had to pay Suggs and Reed big money just to get a declining Reed and a good Suggs this year but a terrible one last year. Ngata is a nice boost but will need to get paid next year.

**bretts** · 12-15-2010, 07:45 AM

sometimes when people on here talk about the Ravens, i think they are 4-9.

9-4 considering the talent on this team is what, maybe one game below expectations? if that? with the exception of WR and QB, what position is better, even equal to what it has been in the last 10 years?

**Mwjergs** · 12-15-2010, 08:23 AM

There is a mix of truth and pessimism here.

I agree that Ray is in the twlight of his career. He is after all human, we think. But he still can play at a high level at times and that's better than 75% of the league at his position. It is true that the Ravens have never been able to replace Bart Scott. I think Ellerbee could be that guy but he can't seem to stay out of trouble with the staff or active.

Reed is a year to year player with the types of injuries he has sustained. But he still has tremendous talents at the back end of the defense. Just because he gets beat a few times doesn't mean he's finished.

The O-Line is in need of some tweaking and it's amazing how Gaither's injury has affected the group. The board has discussed that Oher be moved back to RT and I agree that he's had major issues at LT. Chester is a 6th lineman. Birk is starting to show age as well. Only Grubbs and Yanda are a consistent presence.

I do this at times too. We overvalue and at times undervalue players we see each week.
Sometimes you have to stop and take along look around the league and really pay attention to what other teams have before you compare or in some cases complain.

The Ravens have plenty of talent to win the division and go to the playoffs. Where is goes from there is still a mystery. They have never been blown out or outclassed by an opponent this season. In fact there biggest issue as we all know is an inability to play with a lead. From what I've seen they have enough to be successful for now.

**Kyle Cactus** · 12-15-2010, 09:57 AM

Interesting. I think you could make a similar case against any of the top NFL teams. In today's NFL, no one is top notch at every position.

I think the Patriots are a telling point of comparison here. Right now they look like the best team in the NFL, but you could point to many weaknesses on their defense. Clearly they seem better than the Ravens, but is this because of more talent, better utilization of talent (coaching), or more "efficient talent."

More Talent - I'm not an expert on the Patriots, so I'll leave to the rest to debate.

Better Utilization of Talent (Coaching) - You'd be hard pressed to say we do better than Belichick. Advantage Patriots.

More "Efficient Talent" - Historically, this has been the bane of the Ravens. We've had some very talented teams, but have generally had poor talent at the most critical position, QB. Therefore our distribution of talent has been inefficient. Flacco is a big upgrade for us, but he's still far behind a QB like Brady. The Patriots have one of the best players in the NFL at the most important position in the NFL. They also have an O-Line that is good enough to help him realize his full potential. They have very "efficient talent." To me, that is a big part of why they are better than us, the Steelers, and the Jets.

All of the top teams in the AFC this year are talented (Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Jets), but they all have talent gaps as well. "Bottom line is," the Patriots may have both the best coaching and the most efficient distribution of talent. I'm not sure they are flat out the most talented.

**Carey** · 12-15-2010, 10:32 AM

There seems to be an attitude that because this team is 9 and 4 they are above criticism. I love this team, ill be front and center every game like i always am but im also not stupid. The talent level in certain spots(which is good but could use upgrades) combined with the play calling keep this team from being a true Super Bowl contender imo. Its not Mattison's fault we are void of pass rushers, just like its not Cam's fault we dont have a gamebreaker in the recieving game and the offensive line has being dominated at times. What it would take from them is a bit more creativity and aggression to make for a better output on Sundays. Until we upgrade at those positions we are what we are, unless we start calling games a bit differently on both sides of the ball.

PS-I nor most others dont believe the sky is falling, we just bought into this team being on the short list to win the Super Bowl, the performance of the team, not the record, the performance leads me to believe otherwise so there is frustration with that. That doesnt make us any less of fans.

**Galen Sevinne** · 12-15-2010, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Carey

PS-I nor most others dont believe the sky is falling, we just bought into this team being on the short list to win the Super Bowl, the performance of the team, not the record, the performance leads me to believe otherwise so there is frustration with that. That doesnt make us any less of fans.

This is my point of the post. I am not saying this team is not talented...the Ravens are talented and are probably talented as a 9-4 team bit not talented enough to overcome some key losses over the last couple seasons. Many bought the party line from week 1 that this team was Superbowl bound and anything short would be a disaster. So many are in disaster mode right now and neglecting to enjoy another playoff bound year - the third in a row which will be a first in Ravens history.

Any yes, most of the disappointment has hinged on Gaither tapping out. The Ravens do not have the talent to surmount that loss but instead all of the blame goes on Cam. I would give Cam about 20% of the blame for the offensive woes and most of the remainder on the OL.

I am also becoming concerned over Boldin who appears to be less ambitious. His call to fame was that if you put a ball in his general direction he will go and get it. I saw at least two passes that were in his direction that he gave a lackluster attempt.