Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ... 8910
Results 109 to 111 of 111
  1. #109

    Re: Tom Brady is father to 2 children??



    while race is constantly thrown around in topics of this nature, the Brady reference pretty much nulifies that. This is a slippery slope argument that will never be won. It depends on how an idividual is raised. One thought is the nuclear family and the other does not value the nuclear family, although it seems to only care that the children are taken care of, not just financially but emotionally as well. I lean towards the latter. If McGahee has 6 kids with 6 mommas, who care as long as he stays involved in his childrens lives. it does not matter to anyone else. If he did not support his children then it shows serious character flaws that need to be looked at not just legally but also by the NFL. I could go out and try eugenics and find only blond women who are athletic and make them mother my children...not so unlike sperm donation. Does that make me a different person(bad). i say not. They will support their children and we will support them on our team. If they dont support, then we as fans wont support the individual player
    Living in Houston, Tx....still living, eating, breathing the Ravens





  2. #110

    Re: Tom Brady is father to 2 children??

    50's values WERE all about white middle class. To invoke the "good ol' days" (which you didn't, specifically,) ... who were they good for? WASPS, only. These were NOT good Ol' days for blacks. I'm simply saying, those days were NOT very moral, when you consider the pain and injustice inflicted by those "morals"! The two cannot be seperated, and should NOT be something we hold up for a shining light!
    Sure you can. You can take the good and bad from anything.

    Want to talk about a huge dividing point between the races? The War of Northern Aggression.
    Slavery was one reason for the war, which we all agree is a bad thing.
    States Rights was another reason for the war which, depending on your political leanings, is a good thing.
    Slavery = Bad.
    States Rights = Good.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, Hi Im Ben may I have a drink please?
    ProFootballMock





  3. #111

    Re: Tom Brady is father to 2 children??

    But don't get it twisted, people fall on hard times and its often not their fault.
    Often Dave? I'd go with occasionally not their fault.

    You cited one example of bad luck leading to homelessness. Want me to go through the examples of people I know who are hovering right around the poverty line who have children, aren't married, and didn't go to college/graduate high school?

    And yes Dave not graduating high school is a choice, as is having multiple children by multiple partners.

    In any case, people like Greg who state studies and statistics as "facts" are usually people who dont' like to recognize that studies are often political and baised, and people who just need to take a few simple social science statistic classes to realize that data can be made to look like what the funders want.
    While people who attempt to ignore those studies are often those people who can't provide any studies to validate their own stance.

    Show me a study that says high school graduates are just as likely to be living at the poverty level as those who didn't graduate high school.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, Hi Im Ben may I have a drink please?
    ProFootballMock





  4. #112

    Re: Tom Brady is father to 2 children??

    Darb, you restrained yourself from chiming in on this learned debate for so long, I am surprised you gave in. :)
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.





  5. #113

    Re: Tom Brady is father to 2 children??

    HOWEVER, those stories and situations are dwarfed by the situations caused by poor decisions.

    Evidence, please.


    Give me something other than your opinion to substantiate such a statement as "truth"


    And please, don't throw an economist article at me, so I can point out who funded it, and their agenda. And the fact that how you collect, permeutate, and report data is an inherently political process.


    I'm not invalidating anyone's opinions. But don't state opinion as "fact" or say "Dave, Greg is right". If everyone agreed with Greg, there wouldn't be politics, or two political parties, or multiple points of view


    But honestly, I all of this is neither here nor there in terms of what this is really about.


    When it comes down to it, people in America feel enough sense of entitlement to state their point of view as "fact". And its seemingly impossible to make them see it otherwise.


    If you were like me and in the business of creating studies and statistics like Greg's little Economist article, you'd understand what goes into making a number or statistic and exactly why a number like "199 out of 200" wreaks of bullshit.





  6. #114

    Re: Tom Brady is father to 2 children??

    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    Evidence, please.


    Give me something other than your opinion to substantiate such a statement as "truth"


    And please, don't throw an economist article at me, so I can point out who funded it, and their agenda. And the fact that how you collect, permeutate, and report data is an inherently political process.


    I'm not invalidating anyone's opinions. But don't state opinion as "fact" or say "Dave, Greg is right". If everyone agreed with Greg, there wouldn't be politics, or two political parties, or multiple points of view


    But honestly, I all of this is neither here nor there in terms of what this is really about.


    When it comes down to it, people in America feel enough sense of entitlement to state their point of view as "fact". And its seemingly impossible to make them see it otherwise.


    If you were like me and in the business of creating studies and statistics like Greg's little Economist article, you'd understand what goes into making a number or statistic and exactly why a number like "199 out of 200" wreaks of bullshit.

    Reality Dave.

    That's the evidence.

    You sit there with your degree and create studies to do exactly what? Try to debunk any study which provides data that you don't particularly agree with?

    You're condescending tone is hilarious. "If you were like me.......".

    Im NOT like you. I don't sit in a bubble and ignore what the hell is going on around me.

    You're "evidence" was bringing up an extreme case where someone was shot in the head with a shotgun. I haven't seen anyone here say that person should be fine and not have serious issues.

    I don't need a study that's approved by CBD to know that a case like that is not even close to the norm.

    But keep spewing your rhetoric about skewed data, selection bias etc....

    Meanwhile, alot of us will deal with reality while you scoff at the notion.

    PP





  7. #115

    Re: Tom Brady is father to 2 children??

    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    a number like "199 out of 200" wreaks of bullshit.
    I think you mean "reeks."

    As I understand your point, Dave, you are saying that Greg's 199 out of 200 presents a couple of problems. You are *not* saying Greg's position is _wrong_ as (to borrow your language) a fact. You are instead pointing out what you see as flaws in the form of his argument, saying:

    1. Calculating "199 out of 200" is not as simple as walking outside, looking for people pushing shopping carts around downtown, and asking 200 of them a series of questions. "Studies" can be, innocently or otherwise, bent, and indeed creating a true and complete study like what we hope the FDA does before approving drugs is exceedingly burdensome and we should not take it on faith that it was done by The Economist. After all, it hardly ever is.

    2. Even *assuming* 199 out of 200 people in poverty have the four following criteria in common: 1. hold the same job 2. get a high school education 3. keep the same spouse 4. get out of poverty, even then it is not, strictly speaking, logically automatic that factors 1, 2, and 3 *cause* factor 4. What if, for instance, 599 out of 600 people in poverty who hold the same job over the same span get out of poverty? Does that mean of those holding a job, they should get divorced to increase their chances from 199/200 to 599/600? Or of the 199 out of 200 who get out of poverty, 40% know how to swim, but of the remaining 1 out of 200, only 5% know how to swim? Should people learn to swim? My point being, even if the *numbers* are "true" in some cosmic sense, we can order them in different ways depending on our desired outcome.

    Dave, correct me if I am wrong, but I think the point of your argument really has almost nothing to do with real issues of poverty, and more to do with statistics and the form of logic and debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    Meanwhile, a lot of us will deal with reality while you scoff at the notion.
    We live in our different realities. Dave isn't saying you are wrong, I don't think, he's just saying, it's not that simple. As often as I think he knows nothing about football ;), I admire him for sticking to his guns in this thread. Let's just try to stay away from repetition. . .
    Last edited by festivus; 03-16-2007 at 10:44 AM.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.





  8. #116
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mt. Arrogance in the middle of the .11 rolling acres of The Windbag Estates
    Posts
    6,046

    Re: Tom Brady is father to 2 children??

    Long story short, he's disfigured, has a plate over the front of his head, had mental problems from said brain damage and is homeless.
    Dude, this is a ridiculous example, if you are going to mix in people who have emotional and mental problems go ahead. I assume we were talking about the able bodied who decide that getting a job and keeping it and not having scads of out-of-wedlock children is not for them and then wonder why they are poor.

    As for the 50s, yes there was racism but it would be possible to encourage nuclear families that are stable without invoking the racism of the times. I have no idea why anybody would think the two are tied at the hip. But let's look at the black family in the 1950s. A lot more fathers in the home, a lot less crime committed by and against them, a lot less children out of wedlock, etc. I can guarantee you this without looking at any data, blacks that aren't in poverty for the most part have graduated HS, gotten jobs and avoided children out of wedlock.





  9. #117

    Re: Tom Brady is father to 2 children??

    Darb, you restrained yourself from chiming in on this learned debate for so long, I am surprised you gave in.
    It's not chiming in on the "debate" itself, it's an annoying habit of mine having to correct people when they're wrong. Makes my married life a lot more entertaining than it really should be.

    If people here want to start throwing degrees around, then I'll win. Mine is in a stainless steel frame with bullet proof glass. That thing is dangerous and unbreakable.:D
    Last edited by darb72; 03-16-2007 at 11:58 PM.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, Hi Im Ben may I have a drink please?
    ProFootballMock





  10. #118

    Re: Tom Brady is father to 2 children??

    While people who attempt to ignore those studies are often those people who can't provide any studies to validate their own stance.

    Show me a study that says high school graduates are just as likely to be living at the poverty level as those who didn't graduate high school.

    That wasn't my claim. My claim is that it isn't that simple (thank you festivus).


    You can't state these things as "rules" or as "fact". If you think the example I gave is the exception to the rule, you probably need to interact with homeless people more: volunteering is a good way.


    But people stating statistics as fact . . . whatever floats your boat. But there are studies out there that "prove" a variety on contradicting views. This is why we have politics or discussions of this sort.


    Its like arguing over, say, you know who at the QB position. Different stats will say different things, and people on different sides will use said stats to prove that their point is "fact"


    When in reality, its more of an opinion that you're supporting with a statistic that you hope is more or less based on fact.


    For that matter, there is nothing worse than mistaking correlation with causation.


    As for "wreaks" v. "reeks" I dont really proof read these things. I proofread a lot of things, just not message board posts. If I notice the errors after I read the thread again, then I edit.


    All this said, I'll stop beating this dead horse here.





  11. #119

    Re: Tom Brady is father to 2 children??

    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post


    All this said, I'll stop beating this dead horse here.
    We all thank you.

    PP





  12. #120

    Re: Tom Brady is father to 2 children??

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    Sure you can. You can take the good and bad from anything.

    Want to talk about a huge dividing point between the races? The War of Northern Aggression.
    Slavery was one reason for the war, which we all agree is a bad thing.
    States Rights was another reason for the war which, depending on your political leanings, is a good thing.
    Slavery = Bad.
    States Rights = Good.
    You completely missed the boat! We're talking morals. A person who holds up certain values, as righteous as they may be, but practices say, slavery, or bigotry, can you call him a man of high morals? Well, you may, but I won't! Nor will I be impressed by, or value, the values held by such persons.





Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Link To Mobile Site