Rob Long's Article on Why WR's don't Win Football Games

**Dave Lap** · 06-23-2009, 12:44 PM

"I’ve said for years, running backs and wide receivers are great for your fantasy teams, but they are overrated in real football. In football, championships are won in the trenches. There’s no conjunction to that statement. Put the stats down, and watch the game."

While I see where Rob Long is coming from I think his "thesis" doesn't hold true in the real world. There have been plenty of teams without strong front lines who have won Super Bowls. There have been plenty of teams with great WR's and average front lines who have won Super Bowls.

Look at last years Super Bowl. Pittsburgh had a mediocre offensive line and very good receivers. Saint Louis had an average offensive and defensive line and great receivers and almost won the SB.

Going back through history I could cite many teams that illustrate either side of the argument. For example, there were teams with great front lines and mediocre passing games that won the big one. Ravens 2000 anyone?

The truth of the matter is that football is too complex a sport to break down with all encompassing statements. Football is filled with stuff like that. Example: Offense wins games but defense wins championships.

The truth of the matter is that there are many formulas for developing a winning football team and to point to one formula as "THE ONE" sounds good but is just too easy an explanation.

I like Rob Long and listen to his show. I also like the way the Ravens chose in the draft. Given the talent available, they made what looks like some excellent moves in the draft. But, that doesn't mean we wouldn't benefit enormously if we were to aquire a big fast, talented WR. Anyone who watches the Ravens knows that is our most critical need.

Can the Ravens go all the way without a breakaway all pro WR? Of course, if the other parts of the team pick up the slack. But that doesn't mean we don't need one......

**srobert96** · 06-23-2009, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by TRAP

I guess he missed Santonio Holmes winning the SB for Squeeers with a great catch 2 feet from the sideline.

And Raymond Berry and Jimmy Orr were long before his time so he missed all the games they won too..

This is why I dont even listen to local sports radio much and especially not anyone at or anyone from NST.

And speaking of teams w/o strong lines, Ive been saying on the draft threads that the Ravens won the SB with a cheap line across the middle - MULI, MITCHELL AND EVERYBODYS FAVORITE - MIKE FLYNN.

Rams won SB with cheap line across the middle the year before.

And Ravens won 89 games, 6th best in NFL for the decade w/o Michael Oher, which is why we needed a receiver in the draft.

While agree with most of your points in regards to teams winning with weak Olines I disagree on your opinion that the Ravens should have drafted a wr instead of Oher.

If the Ravens drafted a wr instead of Oher we would be going into the season with Terry and Cousins duo. YIKES! WR rarely if ever play well in their first couple of years in the league. So any wr who would have been drafted more than likely would not have helped this year. There is no guarantee that a first round pick will end up better than Mark Clayton.

**caliraven** · 06-23-2009, 04:07 PM

I do believe that Rob Long is correct. The only SB champs in recent history (since the heyday of the 49ers) with stellar/superstar receiving corps were Indy and St Louis. The pats didn't even have star receivers when they won. The steelers receivers are no better than the Ravens. Santonio is no better than Clayton; if he seems to be slightly ahead, that can most sensibly be attributed to Ben. Better Flacco means better use of our receivers' skills. more time for Joe to throw makes our receivers better. No time to throw and you'll never find out how good your QB and WRs are.

**Rxdoxx** · 06-23-2009, 07:41 PM

Yes, there is no formula. Comes down to the cream rising to the top and teams that find ways to play to their strengths and cover their weakness win more games than they lose.

We can list super players who never got a ring (Sanders, Marino...), we can list great receivers who helped their team win it, and as big of a list who couldn't get it done with the championship on the line. Fact is though we could use a great one, doesn't look like we can get one without mortgaging the future, and do have the current potential roster to get there and win it.

These days of free agents and salary caps means that the chances of a team being "lights-out" in every position across the board are practically non-existent. I really like how our team is shaping up. I can look at this or that position and make a wish list, but that ain't really going to do much more than frustrate me. The way things are looking to me, we can probably game plan to run the ball to any gap we choose. If Oher comes around fast, we could have a 2 TE set and send them both out.
I'd rather focus on these kinds of thoughts and let Oz worry about who may be available and cap implications down the line.

**RavensDomination** · 06-23-2009, 08:58 PM

I think Rob Longs point is valid. The Stealers offensive line is the exception not the rule. Not to mention Ben R. is better outside of the pocket than he is inside of the pocket, so it actually plays to his strength to have him scrambling around. Plus, the Stealers d-line was the best in the NFL last year.

I agree that you can't have Frank Sanders out there as your #1 WR and expect to win anything, but if you have consistent, reliable WR's, you can win a Super Bowl. You don't need a "true #1" whatever the hell that means.

Originally Posted by TRAP

My point with the 89 wins, is: we won all those games including a SB with a weak right side of the line plus Mike Flynn in the middle.

Flynn was good back then, it's just that with the injuries his play declined (yet Billick could never see that).

**festivus** · 06-23-2009, 09:28 PM

Going backward we've had the following Super Bowl winners:

SB 43: Steelers
SB 42: Giants
SB 41: Colts
SB 40: Steelers
SB 39: Patriots (pre-Moss)
SB 38: Patriots
SB 37: Bucs
SB 36: Patriots
SB 35: Ravens

The only team on that list with an arguably game-breaking type WR is the Colts in 07. Setting aside that one year for the Colts, the *best* WRs in that time - Owens, Moss, more recently Fitzgerald, also Steve Smith, Chad Johnson and other premier receivers over that period - have none.

Rob Long - no longer with WNST, sadly - is absolutely right.

**Raven Nurse** · 06-23-2009, 11:57 PM

I thought it was a great kicker and Matt Cavanagh that won football games

**jonboy79** · 06-24-2009, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Lap

"
There have been plenty of teams with great WR's and average front lines who have won Super Bowls.

Look at last years Super Bowl. Pittsburgh had a mediocre offensive line and very good receivers. Saint Louis had an average offensive and defensive line and great receivers and almost won the SB.
.

Not nearly as many as you think.... Not even close to a quarter of all SP champs are WR heavy, last year's Steelers beign among those that are not superlative in that area. Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes and Nate Washington is not an elite WR corps. Those of us that don't think WR is the missing link point to Pittsburgh, because we could easily be that good at WR this year, without additional help.

**jonboy79** · 06-24-2009, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by TRAP

You might want to revise that. Squeelers had Santonio Holmes and Hiney Ward this year, and Ward and Randel El in the previous SB. Plus, El thru the TD on the flea flicker in the Seattle SB.

Colts had Harrison.

Giants had Burress who caught the TD that sealed the game. Eli threw 3 TDs in that game. And they had a good TE in Shockey who made some big plays during their PO run.

Ravens had a great TE in Shannan Sharpe. They havent made the SB since or before which is why I wanted Pettigrew.
Sharpe scored some big TDs in the SB run in Tenn and OAK and was covered pretty well in the SB but that opened it up for others. Brandon Stokely caught a TD and had some big PO games for the Colts. Even Patrick Johnson was open for a TD but Dilfer missed him.

And look at the great QBs except Tampa and us of course - Brady, Manning and Manning, and Big Ben.

The air game was very important in each of those SB victories.

Baltimore may have never won the world championship in 58 and 59 w/o Ray Berry and never w/o Unitas. Giants couldnt defense either one for two years in a row.

Again, the air game was important even back in those times.

It was Air Unitas that put the NFL on the map.

Steelers were above average at Wideout. Don't twist it past that.
Wait I thought it was illegal to say Shockey was better then Heap on these boards? Because there would be no other reason to bring him up in a discussion here...
The fact of the matter is that Rob Long is right. WR is probably the single least important starting offensive or defensive position group on the field.

**yeahravens** · 06-24-2009, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by TRAP

You might want to revise that. Squeelers had Santonio Holmes and Hiney Ward this year, and Ward and Randel El in the previous SB. Plus, El thru the TD on the flea flicker in the Seattle SB.

Colts had Harrison.

Giants had Burress who caught the TD that sealed the game. Eli threw 3 TDs in that game. And they had a good TE in Shockey who made some big plays during their PO run.

Ravens had a great TE in Shannan Sharpe. They havent made the SB since or before which is why I wanted Pettigrew.
Sharpe scored some big TDs in the SB run in Tenn and OAK and was covered pretty well in the SB but that opened it up for others. Brandon Stokely caught a TD and had some big PO games for the Colts. Even Patrick Johnson was open for a TD but Dilfer missed him.

And look at the great QBs except Tampa and us of course - Brady, Manning and Manning, and Big Ben.

The air game was very important in each of those SB victories.

Baltimore may have never won the world championship in 58 and 59 w/o Ray Berry and never w/o Unitas. Giants couldnt defense either one for two years in a row.

Again, the air game was important even back in those times.

It was Air Unitas that put the NFL on the map.

Dude I see what you are trying to say, but let's get the record straight..

The Steelers Defense won this last SB, James Harrison down the sideline, and Holmes right toe never touched the ground, so like the SB against the Seahawks, the refs and the defense, which starts at the front 7.

The Giants won because they got to Tom Brady, one pass to Plaxico was not the tale of the game, please, the Hail Mary earlier was more of a contributer, but if you want to claim that as great reciever, hang up your key board because that guy dropped everything all season long.

Shannon Sharpe had how many catches in the SB???? I remember a key drop. Or was it the defense with the rotation of Adams, Siragusa, Webster, Dalton, Washington, McCrary, and Burrnett that allowed Ray Ray to run wild?

Great QB's require time to throw the football ie - Giants beating Patriots, taking their perfect season from them due to QB pressure. Check out how many times Manning and Brady got sacked versus the rest of the league over the last 5 years, they will be the best protected QB's in the league, and Ben is just a magician, or a fluke, but without that defense he would not have won anything.

**Mwjergs** · 06-24-2009, 09:35 AM

I understand Rob's post too. The battle between the lines is often the one that decides who wins the game and getting a top receiver doesn't guarantee anything.

I just think they way he presented his thesis left out a ton of other variables. There is no true formula to success in the NFL. Check the last ten championship teams. The cap makes it difficult to maintain strength in every area on the field.

What I do disagree with is his assertion that the current crop of receivers can be productive enough. Both Mason and Williams health are an issue heading into training camp and Clayton has only shown he's a 40 catch player in the NFL on the average. Imagine if the season started today and we lined up Clayton and Kelley Washington. Mason addressed the need for a professional receiver years ago and he's still vastly underrated but with Heap's skills declining there is a need for a playmaking receiver. And it doesn't mean if they get one to start printing the Super Bowl tix.