Damn...Obama to meet with dangerous world leader

[Galen Sevinne]

without preconditions. What the hell is he thinking??? It is too early to agree to meet with internationally unpopular and aggressive world leaders without preconditions. Shit.




"President Bush will meet with President-elect Barack Obama in the Oval Office on Monday to discuss the economy, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and other challenges the new administration will face in January, officials said yesterday."

for more of this disgrace:

http://mobile.twp.com/news.jsp?key=313192&rc=ba_po

[4G63]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,4808346.story

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007540

[Galen Sevinne]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,4808346.story

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007540

for everyone of those, there are a couple of these:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=93293353

You say bad intelligence, I say no intelligence. The bottom line is the buck stops at Dudya's door. The neocons had been looking for a way to set up shop in Iraq since the early 90's. They went in and found Saddam hiding in a hole, unshowered and insane. Killed 10 of thousands of people including 4000+ Americans. 10 billion bucks a month.

You want to excuse it because of "poor intelligence". I find it a bit harder to excuse this level of tragedy because of "poor intelligence" and so does 90% of the rest of the world but this is a tired argument by now.

[FredGrau]

Galen - you forgot these links:

http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040329/scheer
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributor...7/22_lies.html
http://terrasol.home.igc.org/IraqLies.htm
http://www.bushlies.net/

On 9/16/2001 (5 days after 9/11):
TIM RUSSERT [Meet the Press]: Do we have any evidence linking Saddam Hussein or Iraqis to [9/11]?
VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: No.

[4G63]

for everyone of those, there are a couple of these:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=93293353

You say bad intelligence, I say no intelligence. The bottom line is the buck stops at Dudya's door. The neocons had been looking for a way to set up shop in Iraq since the early 90's. They went in and found Saddam hiding in a hole, unshowered and insane. Killed 10 of thousands of people including 4000+ Americans. 10 billion bucks a month.

You want to excuse it because of "poor intelligence". I find it a bit harder to excuse this level of tragedy because of "poor intelligence" and so does 90% of the rest of the world but this is a tired argument by now.

You're right, Democrats voted for the war too.....


4000+ Americans, huh? Two times that many 18-30 year olds die EACH YEAR in car wrecks in the US alone. I don't see you bitching about that? Remember, just because you didn't join the military doesn't mean its wrong for others to fight for what they believe in....oh, maybe you forgot its a volunteer military as well?

90% of the world too, huh? How about almost all Iraqi's are HAPPY we're there. Oh that's right, they won't show you that on CNN and MSNBC! When the people you're liberating from an oppressive leader are the ones that are happy they can create their own Democracy, it really doesn't matter what anyone else in the world says. They're better off than they were before and THEY know it, even though you don't! You probably care what France thinks too, so I shouldn't be surprised......

[4G63]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=93293353

Morning Edition, August 5, 2008 · In his new book, The Way of the World: A Story of Truth And Hope In An Age of Extremism, author Ron Suskind alleges that the Bush administration knew Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and eventually fabricated intelligence assets to support its case for war. Both the White House and the CIA deny his claims.

Suskind, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, tells Steve Inskeep that a secret mission was conducted, in which a British intelligence agent met with the head of Iraqi intelligence in a secret location in Jordan, and that the Iraqi conveyed that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

"What that meant is that we knew everything that became so obvious by the summer after the invasion, and the president made a decision essentially to ignore that intelligence," Suskind says.

He says once the final report went to President Bush, Condoleezza Rice and others, the U.S. cut off communications with the Iraqi intelligence chief and then moved forward. An agreement was made to resettle the Iraqi and pay him $5 million.

Then, in the fall of 2003, the White House decided that a letter should be fabricated, dated July 2001, from the Iraqi to Saddam Hussein establishing a link to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S. "And the letter should as well say that Saddam Hussein has been actively buying yellowcake uranium from Niger with the help of al-Qaida," Suskind says.

He says that sources at the CIA remember seeing the order for that letter on "creamy White House stationery" and that the letter could only have come from the "highest reaches of the White House. ... It would have to come from the very top."

In disputing Suskind's claims, former CIA Director George Tenet said the White House never gave an order to plant false evidence and his agency resisted efforts to find bogus links between Iraq and al-Qaida. A White House spokesman, meanwhile, called the claims another one of those "bizarre conspiracy theories that Ron Suskind likes to dwell in."

Seriously?

At least my links had names and dates....not speculation and "sources"!

:grbac:

[Galen Sevinne]

Galen - you forgot these links:

http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040329/scheer
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributor...7/22_lies.html
http://terrasol.home.igc.org/IraqLies.htm
http://www.bushlies.net/

On 9/16/2001 (5 days after 9/11):
TIM RUSSERT [Meet the Press]: Do we have any evidence linking Saddam Hussein or Iraqis to [9/11]?
VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: No.

I am sure you could provide 100 more links but if someone at this point is *STILL* believing in Bush, I doubt they will ever (or are able) to see it any differently. Thankfully, that debate has been settled as of last Tuesday and we have more promising things for which to look forward.

[xmradiodave]

While I believe Bush and his legacy is an EPIC failure, I have to laugh at conspiracy theories. They are just that. Theories, and not to be dedicated as Conspiracy Fact.

President-Elect Obama has a tough road ahead of him, repairing strained global view of the US, a failing (US) economy, ongoing wars in two countries and countless other debacles that have crept up over the past decade. Not to mention all the issues that are going on in the "country of Africa".

Being Republican, it would be easy for me to lay out reasons why I think Obama could fail as P.O.T.U.S. but at this point, I will simply say "Show me what you got", as this country needs some fixin'.

[4G63]

I am sure you could provide 100 more links but if someone at this point is *STILL* believing in Bush, I doubt they will ever (or are able) to see it any differently. Thankfully, that debate has been settled as of last Tuesday and we have more promising things for which to look forward.

Look, I've never said Bush was above criticism (he most certainly isn't), but to say that he is the only one to blame for this country's problems is plain wrong. He's been saddled with probably more major issues than any other President in recent memory. From 9/11 to Afghanistan/Iraq to Katrina and the housing crisis, everything has been his fault, or at least reported that way by the media.

His legacy (good or bad) truly can't be measured at this point. It will take 10-15 years before we see how a stable (or unstable) Iraq and Afghanistan helps or hurts the US and the world. How local and state governments, along with FEMA, respond to major natural disasters. The Federal Government had to expand due to 9/11 and with the creation of the Office of Homeland Security, so came thousands of jobs nationwide.

We haven't had a Terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11, does he at least credit for that since he takes the hit for everything else?

[Rochardrik]

Look, I've never said Bush was above criticism (he most certainly isn't), but to say that he is the only one to blame for this country's problems is plain wrong. He's been saddled with probably more major issues than any other President in recent memory. From 9/11 to Afghanistan/Iraq to Katrina and the housing crisis, everything has been his fault, or at least reported that way by the media.

His legacy (good or bad) truly can't be measured at this point. It will take 10-15 years before we see how a stable (or unstable) Iraq and Afghanistan helps or hurts the US and the world. How local and state governments, along with FEMA, respond to major natural disasters. The Federal Government had to expand due to 9/11 and with the creation of the Office of Homeland Security, so came thousands of jobs nationwide.

We haven't had a Terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11, does he at least credit for that since he takes the hit for everything else?

In that Bush had the worst advice givers in history(his choice)... and he was the decider... heh..heh, I think you CAN say he is almost entirely responsible for his plethera of blunders... When you evaluate , and accept intelligence to support pre-conceived notions, or beliefs, you must accept the consequential fallout. AND, there is no way, considering the preponderence of evidence, that anyone can claim that his staff and advisors did not do just that!!!!!
And for anyone to continue to say... well the Democrats (both parties were complicit... no doubt), voted for it... so they were wrong also, is a big fat crock of fact distortion. They(both parties) voted based on the skewed evidence they were presented with. Who presented the evidence? Who subverted the CIA's evidence by coercion? Who lied to Powell to get him to make the speech which finally swayed almost every body?
Do you have any idea how many army bases we have built in Iraq?
No, this war was about anything BUT what it was purported to be, and Bush is responsible for probably as many lives, if not more, than Saddam was.
Spin it however you want, but the facts are that his administration intentionally misled, if not lied to the American public to accomplish goals that had almost nothing to do with 9/11 and he should be, and will be held accountable in the annals of history!
The slow reaction during Katrina, the bankrupting of our military and resources, .,..and our nation, are a direct or indirect consequence of that conscience decision to mislead the country for personal agendas.
It is, indeed, historically pathetic!

[Dade]

You're right, Democrats voted for the war too.....


4000+ Americans, huh? Two times that many 18-30 year olds die EACH YEAR in car wrecks in the US alone. I don't see you bitching about that? Remember, just because you didn't join the military doesn't mean its wrong for others to fight for what they believe in....oh, maybe you forgot its a volunteer military as well?

90% of the world too, huh? How about almost all Iraqi's are HAPPY we're there. Oh that's right, they won't show you that on CNN and MSNBC! When the people you're liberating from an oppressive leader are the ones that are happy they can create their own Democracy, it really doesn't matter what anyone else in the world says. They're better off than they were before and THEY know it, even though you don't! You probably care what France thinks too, so I shouldn't be surprised......

Coming from someone who is in Balad right now, I dont believe in this war. Yet I am here because I signed up to be. Knowing full well I would be asked to do things I didn't agree with.

As far as the Iraqi's being happy we are there, I can tell you that most are not happy at all about it.

[Rochardrik]

[QUOTE=4G63;108437]You're right, Democrats voted for the war too.....


4000+ Americans, huh? Two times that many 18-30 year olds die EACH YEAR in car wrecks in the US alone. I don't see you bitching about that? Remember, just because you didn't join the military doesn't mean its wrong for others to fight for what they believe in....oh, maybe you forgot its a volunteer military as well?
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This is the most flawed logic ever! We work constantly to cut back deaths on the road. Each year, millions of dollars are spent in research for better lane marking, brighter signs, better road design, not to mention the speed traps, seatbelt stops, etc. But in this needless war, we spend billions more money to kill more of OUR young citizens? And what about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that have died? Do they count at all?