Either he's a RB or a QB. It can't be both.

**ShadeRaven** · 09-12-2024, 03:26 PM

its funny the same ones who insist he's not an NFL QB without his Legs were the first to admonish him for not playing with a bad leg.

**purple_city39** · 09-12-2024, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Goode05

Can seemed to fall off after his truck flipped a bunch of times

Cam's car accident happened in 2014. He won MVP and went to the superbowl the following year

**Twitch11** · 09-12-2024, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by ShadeRaven

Cam Newton survived about 5 years of the work load and you can ask panthers fans if it was worth it in hindsight to have Cam fall apart and the QB purgatory they been in ever sence.

21 year of football coaching but you have to explain fatigue, balance, and wear and tear lol okay buddy.

Are you saying you would take a lesser Lamar for less wear and tear? If running a QB gives you the best chance of winning a SB in 5 years you have to do it. Lamar running is a cheat code. He is one of the most dangerous players in the NFL with the football in his hands. That doesn't mean you don't coach him up to slide and go out of bounds to avoid unnecessary hits. It also doesn't mean you run the read/option all the time. It would seem a significant number of runs are him pulling it and running and not designed QB runs. That is what makes Lamar one of the most exciting and dangerous players. I would rather have the absolute best Lamar for 5 -7 years than a watered down version.

**ShadeRaven** · 09-12-2024, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Twitch11

Are you saying you would take a lesser Lamar for less wear and tear? If running a QB gives you the best chance of winning a SB in 5 years you have to do it. .

I'm really not sure what these vague platudes have to do with year 7 right now Lamar. We are past the run him run him run him for a Superbowl phase and it DIDNT WORK. Maybe in the playoffs if we have to do that then that's cool but Lamar is on a mega contract with investment in the passing game and it's 17 games to go to the playoffs. Him going Superman mode straight to IR doesn't help us win shit. We didn't even win the game vs the chiefs lol

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**edromeo** · 09-12-2024, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

TYA, Lamar played 12 games in 2022. Out due to injury. This doesn’t help your point.

To your point, I don’t think people are arguing that being fatigued doesn’t damage his performance, but there is your point that everyone is getting tired and also my point in accessing the value gained by those plays that fatigue the QB.

additionally, even if he runs around the pocket and either throws it away or even competes a pass, and then takes a hit while running sideways or backwards, that play could or evwn would sap his energy more than a straight forward 6 yard run up the sidelines and out of bounds.

These guys are the best in the world at what they do. I’m sure Lamar is winded after a run but I don’t think he’s fatigued to the point where it excuses accountability.

Lamar is chasing SB(s) and greatness.
Using fatigue as an excuse for missing open plays is imho far, far beneath what I expect of him. Maybe I just hold Lamar in higher esteem then either side of this argument.

Lamar has shown time and time again that he can execute with rhythm, timing and accuracy in the passing game. We’ve all witnessed it with our own eyes. BUT it’s not consistent. Against the Chiefs we saw it all. Fodder for the both sides. Brilliant 1-of-1 escape and evade runs. But we also saw him run out of clean pockets with receivers breaking open. We saw coaching tape level 5-step drop throw to Zay on post. We also saw heel click wonky mechanics led to some off target passes. But we also saw scramble dot to Bateman on the sideline. We also say hesitancy to pull the trigger/non-targeted open go-routes.

The difference between Lamar and Mahomes is smaller than many realize. It’s a small handful of plays that separate them. And I think Lamar is talented enough to get there.

**Mmcclend** · 09-12-2024, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Twitch11

Are you saying you would take a lesser Lamar for less wear and tear? If running a QB gives you the best chance of winning a SB in 5 years you have to do it. Lamar running is a cheat code. He is one of the most dangerous players in the NFL with the football in his hands. That doesn't mean you don't coach him up to slide and go out of bounds to avoid unnecessary hits. It also doesn't mean you run the read/option all the time. It would seem a significant number of runs are him pulling it and running and not designed QB runs. That is what makes Lamar one of the most exciting and dangerous players. I would rather have the absolute best Lamar for 5 -7 years than a watered down version.

I think the best plan is to protect him as much as possible in the regular season so that he can give us 2-3 playoff games and 1 Super Bowl game like what he just did week 1. He’s going to be worn out if we run him too much in the regular season.

**purple_city39** · 09-12-2024, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Twitch11

Are you saying you would take a lesser Lamar for less wear and tear? If running a QB gives you the best chance of winning a SB in 5 years you have to do it. Lamar running is a cheat code. He is one of the most dangerous players in the NFL with the football in his hands. That doesn't mean you don't coach him up to slide and go out of bounds to avoid unnecessary hits. It also doesn't mean you run the read/option all the time. It would seem a significant number of runs are him pulling it and running and not designed QB runs. That is what makes Lamar one of the most exciting and dangerous players. I would rather have the absolute best Lamar for 5 -7 years than a watered down version.

The problem is running a QB does NOT give you the best chance to win a superbowl. There are people on this forum that say it's the highest EPA play, and it might be, however running your QB into the ground has not won a single team a superbowl yet.

Mike Vick? Nope. Cam Newton, close but nope. Vince Young? Lol no. Justin Fields almost broke Lamar's rushing record and he couldn't sniff a playoff berth

Now, when a team gets a QB who can run, but feature his passing and allow his running to be his personal get out of a jail free card, then they win superbowl or at least get close. Patrick Mahomes. Russell Wilson. Cam was throwing and running when needed, he got to the big game. Jalen Hurts ran better his 1st two seasons than he did his 3rd and 4th, and it got him nothing. Philly gets him some WR help and then focuses on him arm with his legs as the backup/secondary.

Vick's best NFL season was after he was 30+ coming off 2 years without football due to jail and 1 year on the bench. Even Lamar's deepest playoff run game off the season his new OC passed first to get a lead/score points and ran to keep it. I will be fair and mention that focusing on running him did get them to the playoffs, however focusing on his arm with his legs as backup got them further into the playoffs on one try than the other way did on 5.

Running your QB as much as possible has won zero superbowls thus far and I doubt it ever will

**2bynight** · 09-12-2024, 05:05 PM

I am certainly no football expert but this is what I have observed about Lamar's passing. He has the uncanny ability to get open and make passes while running. Many of those passes are short to medium passes, but they tend to be accurate. I think that has added to his passer rating and certainly makes him dangerous. In a crazy sense its like Big Ben who could always seem to extend plays and then chuck a winner. Lamar's ability to scramble and then throw for yards is scary good. That said, it will almost never be a good deep throw - but the short to intermediate work for him. He is simply never going to be a pocket passer like Brady/Manning/Rogers but was drafted for his dual-threat capital. I believe both elements combined make him superior to a pure pocket passer with his style as long as he has the cast in place to support both elements.

**jonboy79** · 09-12-2024, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by purple_city39

The problem is running a QB does NOT give you the best chance to win a superbowl. There are people on this forum that say it's the highest EPA play, and it might be, however running your QB into the ground has not won a single team a superbowl yet.

Mike Vick? Nope. Cam Newton, close but nope. Vince Young? Lol no. Justin Fields almost broke Lamar's rushing record and he couldn't sniff a playoff berth

Now, when a team gets a QB who can run, but feature his passing and allow his running to be his personal get out of a jail free card, then they win superbowl or at least get close. Patrick Mahomes. Russell Wilson. Cam was throwing and running when needed, he got to the big game. Jalen Hurts ran better his 1st two seasons than he did his 3rd and 4th, and it got him nothing. Philly gets him some WR help and then focuses on him arm with his legs as the backup/secondary.

Vick's best NFL season was after he was 30+ coming off 2 years without football due to jail and 1 year on the bench. Even Lamar's deepest playoff run game off the season his new OC passed first to get a lead/score points and ran to keep it. I will be fair and mention that focusing on running him did get them to the playoffs, however focusing on his arm with his legs as backup got them further into the playoffs on one try than the other way did on 5.

Running your QB as much as possible has won zero superbowls thus far and I doubt it ever will

Sample size bias.

Correct, zero of perhaps 15-20 teams have won the SuperBowl in the past 20 years with a running QB.

20 of around 600 have done it without.

Probably about 8 of 200 with run game and defense and 12 of 400 with high flying passing games.

Yes, those are guesstimates not stats.

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**jonboy79** · 09-12-2024, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by 2bynight

I am certainly no football expert but this is what I have observed about Lamar's passing. He has the uncanny ability to get open and make passes while running. Many of those passes are short to medium passes, but they tend to be accurate. I think that has added to his passer rating and certainly makes him dangerous. In a crazy sense its like Big Ben who could always seem to extend plays and then chuck a winner. Lamar's ability to scramble and then throw for yards is scary good. That said, it will almost never be a good deep throw - but the short to intermediate work for him. He is simply never going to be a pocket passer like Brady/Manning/Rogers but was drafted for his dual-threat capital. I believe both elements combined make him superior to a pure pocket passer with his style as long as he has the cast in place to support both elements.

When Tebow first came out I thought he would revolutionize FB by getting to the edge and forcing defenses to peel off guys to free them open for short and intermediate passes. If they elected not to, he would just chunk them to death 6-8 yards at a time running like a FB through DB’s.

Clearly, I was wrong. Lamar sure seems like the better version of that. I’d like to see more boots outside the tackle box.

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