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  1. #433
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    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenXbio View Post
    This thread turned into a whole different story that doesn’t really matter
    Yeah, Wiggins would have to put on a whole lotta weight to make the O-line. Of course he could go on the "sister-in-law diet" That'll get him there in one quick hurry... Bc





  2. #434

    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Anyone here could have written that. It's just fan fiction. It's not like there is any real insight. It's the exact same speculation as everyone brought up here in this thread.
    This paragragh right here:

    "Wiggins’ unexpected availability at that stage of the draft felt like a stroke of luck for Baltimore, especially considering the team’s alleged preference for drafting either an offensive lineman or a wide receiver. Yet, recently revealed footage from the Ravens’ draft room suggests Wiggins was always the primary target for the team, revealing a collective hope among the front office that Wiggins would still be on the board when their turn came. Their strategy hinged on other teams’ selections, notably anticipating the Dallas Cowboys’ pick, which ultimately led to Wiggins slipping through to the Ravens."

    The first bolded bit is I think way off the mark. I never saw any preference for drafting a wide receiver in the 1st round. At all.

    The second bolded bit is not understanding how the Ravens operate or what the Draft is when you are picking very late in the round.

    The Ravens sure anticipated that CBs could fall so it was more likely that a Top3 CB would fall to them than for example a Top3 OT, but to suggest Wiggins was always the primary target is absurd.
    It ain't pretty, but it's us.
    AND I'M HERE FOR IT ALL, BABY.

    We were getting healthier...





  3. #435
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    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valhain View Post
    The second bolded bit is not understanding how the Ravens operate or what the Draft is when you are picking very late in the round.

    The Ravens sure anticipated that CBs could fall so it was more likely that a Top3 CB would fall to them than for example a Top3 OT, but to suggest Wiggins was always the primary target is absurd.
    Yeah - your scenario is much more on the mark. Several guys including EDC and Zach Orr said they didn't expect Wiggins to be there when the process started. When it was pick 22 and all three of Mitchell, Arnold and Wiggins were on the board, that's when they really started thinking they could land him.
    Last edited by WNCRavensFan; 05-23-2024 at 11:45 AM.





  4. #436

    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson.

    Quote Originally Posted by WNCRavensFan View Post
    Yeah - your scenario is much more on the mark. Several guys including EDC and Zach Orr said they didn't expect Wiggins to be there when the process started. When it was pick 22 and all three of Mitchell, Arnold and Wiggins were on the board, that's when they really started thinking they could land him.
    Exactly.

    If Wiggins and a similarly graded OT are there at 30, they turn the card as fastr for the OT.
    It ain't pretty, but it's us.
    AND I'M HERE FOR IT ALL, BABY.

    We were getting healthier...





  5. #437
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    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson.

    It's worth noting that the Eagles drafted Mitchell and the Lions drafted Arnold. The Eagles, Lions and Ravens have been three of the best drafting teams the last five years. CB is going to be a story to follow from this draft class, league wide.

    Looking over the draft, not only the Ravens but also the Eagles and Lions doubled up at CB. Philly drafted Cooper DeJean in Rd 2 (yeah yeah but he can play CB) and Detroit drafted Ennis Rakestraw in Rd 2.





  6. #438

    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    if you haven't seen this it's pretty insightful. They wanted this guy

    https://x.com/Ravens/status/1792721980333989918
    I watched the full "Wired" show and this one was by far the best offseason one they've ever done. May have been some friendly editing done to make sure they looked good with all the players they took, but it definitely gives a clear view of how much they wanted Wiggins...which goes along with how quickly they turned that card in. Same with Rosengarden and most of the rest of the picks. EDC did a heck of a job reading the room there. Also, from some of the conversations...if they accepted a trade back in round 2 and lost out on Rosengarden, they would have taken a guard and frankly, I don't think they get a tackle that has any chance of playing this year. And man, I love Zach Orr and I'm rooting for him big time on a professional and personal level. Seems like such a great guy and great football/Ravens guy.

    https://youtu.be/IFel6Msuwwg?si=lZYh2r77ws9gUQL_
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.





  7. #439
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    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I watched the full "Wired" show and this one was by far the best offseason one they've ever done. May have been some friendly editing done to make sure they looked good with all the players they took, but it definitely gives a clear view of how much they wanted Wiggins...which goes along with how quickly they turned that card in. Same with Rosengarden and most of the rest of the picks. EDC did a heck of a job reading the room there. Also, from some of the conversations...if they accepted a trade back in round 2 and lost out on Rosengarden, they would have taken a guard and frankly, I don't think they get a tackle that has any chance of playing this year. And man, I love Zach Orr and I'm rooting for him big time on a professional and personal level. Seems like such a great guy and great football/Ravens guy.

    https://youtu.be/IFel6Msuwwg?si=lZYh2r77ws9gUQL_
    The more I think about it, the Wiggins pick created a pickle. You get Wiggins, but you then only get your Guard OR Tackle. Not both. I really liked Haynes and I'm guessing they did too, but you don't pass up Wiggins. But Guard will likely be high on the priority list next year. Pretty much everything they missed out on this year, will be higher on the priority list next year.
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





  8. #440

    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    The more I think about it, the Wiggins pick created a pickle. You get Wiggins, but you then only get your Guard OR Tackle. Not both. I really liked Haynes and I'm guessing they did too, but you don't pass up Wiggins. But Guard will likely be high on the priority list next year. Pretty much everything they missed out on this year, will be higher on the priority list next year.
    For sure...you can't prefill every hole for future years.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.





  9. #441
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    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    For sure...you can't prefill every hole for future years.
    I’m with you. My guess is A.) They had Rosengarten rated higher, and B.) Possibly felt that it was the more difficult position for fill, because Rosengarten’s natural position is LT.





  10. #442
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    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valhain View Post
    Exactly.

    If Wiggins and a similarly graded OT are there at 30, they turn the card as fastr for the OT.
    Not necessarily. If they saw a huge drop off after Wiggins, and still plenty of depth at OT (since it was a deep draft for that position), they may have still went with the CB in that scenario. Need comes into it, but if they consider two players of exactly the same value, theyll consider chances of getting a similar player later in the draft at both positions as well. Theyre fluid within their board, so i dont think thats a definitive way to look at it as greater need at T = T over CB at 30. If the depth was also similar at both positions, than id agree Need would be the ultimate factor, but I absolutely think that goes into play and they kind of showed that thought process when deciding on Rosengarten. There was clearly a dropoff at that position after him, but they seemed to be targeting a T in 2, because of its depth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I watched the full "Wired" show and this one was by far the best offseason one they've ever done. May have been some friendly editing done to make sure they looked good with all the players they took, but it definitely gives a clear view of how much they wanted Wiggins...which goes along with how quickly they turned that card in. Same with Rosengarden and most of the rest of the picks. EDC did a heck of a job reading the room there. Also, from some of the conversations...if they accepted a trade back in round 2 and lost out on Rosengarden, they would have taken a guard and frankly, I don't think they get a tackle that has any chance of playing this year. And man, I love Zach Orr and I'm rooting for him big time on a professional and personal level. Seems like such a great guy and great football/Ravens guy.

    https://youtu.be/IFel6Msuwwg?si=lZYh2r77ws9gUQL_
    this was an exceptionally candid look into that room. we still have our guesses how to some of these decisions go ultimately, but I feel I came away with a better understanding of how they operate in this one. Thank god EDC didnt make that trade, because i agree there was a big drop after Rosengarten. the board really fell to them this year, and i think in 3 years well be saying this was a pivotal draft for us, and hopefully that in a good way. Its clear from this, that they really did get a 5-6 guys they really really wanted. maybe 7 if you include Tee's QB choice.
    -JAB





  11. #443

    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Not necessarily. If they saw a huge drop off after Wiggins, and still plenty of depth at OT (since it was a deep draft for that position), they may have still went with the CB in that scenario. Need comes into it, but if they consider two players of exactly the same value, theyll consider chances of getting a similar player later in the draft at both positions as well. Theyre fluid within their board, so i dont think thats a definitive way to look at it as greater need at T = T over CB at 30. If the depth was also similar at both positions, than id agree Need would be the ultimate factor, but I absolutely think that goes into play and they kind of showed that thought process when deciding on Rosengarten. There was clearly a dropoff at that position after him, but they seemed to be targeting a T in 2, because of its depth.
    Maybe. I just doubt it. They needed a starter at OT a lot more than a CB. If, for the sake of argument, Fautanu was graded in the same bracket as Wiggins/Arnold/Mitchell and he is there, then they take Fautanu.

    And for all the perceived depth at OT, they took TJ Tampa late in the 4th round.

    I don't think EDC lies as much as some think but he is hardly ever telling the whole truth. As far as Rosengarten goes, he didn't trade the 62nd pick away (probably losing him in the process) because the other team got cold feet. They were ready to take a guard instead too. I'm sure they get the player they want more often than not because they are very good at this, but lets not buy the "this is the guy we hoped was there (and sometimes the last)" mantra with every pick they make on day 1 or 2.
    It ain't pretty, but it's us.
    AND I'M HERE FOR IT ALL, BABY.

    We were getting healthier...





  12. #444
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    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Nate Wiggins, CB, Clemson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valhain View Post
    Maybe. I just doubt it. They needed a starter at OT a lot more than a CB. If, for the sake of argument, Fautanu was graded in the same bracket as Wiggins/Arnold/Mitchell and he is there, then they take Fautanu.

    And for all the perceived depth at OT, they took TJ Tampa late in the 4th round.

    I don't think EDC lies as much as some think but he is hardly ever telling the whole truth. As far as Rosengarten goes, he didn't trade the 62nd pick away (probably losing him in the process) because the other team got cold feet. They were ready to take a guard instead too. I'm sure they get the player they want more often than not because they are very good at this, but lets not buy the "this is the guy we hoped was there (and sometimes the last)" mantra with every pick they make on day 1 or 2.
    Not sure the other team got cold feet. Pretty sure EDC said "we can make that move but Rosengarten wont be there. If ____ take Rosengarten here, id do that trade in a heartbeat." with intentions of drafting a G, but that team didnt take him and the pick went in. He was definitely the pick at that spot. I believe they said they ran models and only had a 20% chance of him being there.

    Wiggins was another where they just didnt think hed be there based on those models. to your point, there absolutely were other guys, where im sure they had at a possibility of being there above 0, that theyd have been super happy to take. The question is where Wiggins overtakes the Ts (or other players) already taken. It is possible that Wiggins was much higher up that list than you or I would have him. CB1 on their board (their words) could have been comparable to OT1 ultimately. I could easily see them have wiggins over OT4 in this draft. I think it was deep at that position, but plenty of questions about those guys after that mark. I did feel CB was a need for this team, so maybe we differ there. Upgrade, Injury depth, and then considering Declinging play of a high priced vet and the other a FA, thats definitely a need and Wiggins is good enough to be instant starter, so i see that no different than T at 30, ultimately. youre getting a starter either way,

    its just about getting the best player there and throughout the draft. He mentioned this when talking about taking Wiggins. A big drop off after him at CB, even when they really liked another in Tampa, they clearly had Wiggins much higher, which is why I dont think its out of the realm to think he was upper half of their board and higher than some of those other Ts. Especially when considering they had Tampa as a draftable player at 62, and he was in that lot of "big dropoff".
    -JAB





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