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Thread: Trump Trials

  1. #61
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    Re: Trump Trials

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Attempted coup?
    Completely ridiculous….


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    He's just trolling for reaction. He knows he will get responses the more stupid and outrageous he posts.





  2. #62
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    Re: Trump Trials

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeRaven View Post
    What do you call a bunch of people attempting to change the results of an election through force and violent?

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    Democrats.





  3. #63
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    Re: Trump Trials

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    The successful coup was the intentional release of the COVID-19 virus.


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  4. #64

    Re: Trump Trials

    Even y'all's God , Trump called it an insurrection lol argue with him not me

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  5. #65
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    Re: Trump Trials

    Holy shit! This jumped off while I wasn't looking!

    I wanted to post some stuff about the NY trial, and about the Immunity oral arguments. Not sure how big an appetite I have to slog thru 5 pages of what's sure to be bullshit before posting – versus whether I have some responsibiity to slog thru it since I started the thread?

    We'll see.





  6. #66
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    Re: Trump Trials

    Quote Originally Posted by Willbacker View Post
    Just some shorter reading about the fallacy of the NY case

    https://www.newsweek.com/alvin-bragg...0that%20power.


    Wow, you really are dumb as a rock. The just directly above the highlighted text your link sent me to is completely inaccurate.
    That text is:

    Quote Originally Posted by By John Yoo and John Shu
    In fact, Bragg's indictment never specifies what the "another crime" is, which is a minimum requirement for any indictment, let alone one of this magnitude.
    Post #2 in this thread mentions this:

    New York state law does not require that [the DA] identify the specific [predicate] offenses in the indictment.
    And then further down it references how the Feb 15 omnibus ruling clarified three viable "object offenses" (and threw out a fourth one that prosecutors had wanted included).



    Willbacker, you proved in the thread about the Fulton County votes that reading comprehension is not your strong suit: but man, try to do a little bit of the homework. Make an effort! Sheesh.

    I know I'm verbose a hell. And maybe the way I organize the material is not the most intuitive. But there's a lot of section breaks and bullet lists and stuff to make it more readable. You could try.




    Here's the part that you actually directed me to(the highlighted text):

    Quote Originally Posted by By John Yoo and John Shu
    Also, it is doubtful that Bragg may charge the federal crime. State prosecutors may not prosecute federal crimes because under Article II of the U.S. Constitution, only the president, through his Department of Justice, has that power.
    These clowns are law professors?

    The legal concept they're referring to is called "preemption". Post #3 in this thread show the Table Of Contents of the guide on the Just Security website. Item 5 in that TOC is this:

    FROM INDICTMENT TO DISPOSITIVE MOTIONS
    ...
    5. What happened on preemption?
    If we mosey on over to the link, we see:

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSecurity
    Trump raised this defense as part of his attempt to remove the case [to federal court], claiming that the charges against him are based on alleged violations of state and federal election laws and are therefore preempted by the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA).
    ...
    Federal preemption refers to the circumstance where federal law renders a state law unenforceable. The Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution makes federal law ‘the supreme Law of the Land.’ As a result, when there’s some irreconcilable conflict between state and federal law (conflict preemption), when Congress’ legislation of an area of law is sufficiently pervasive (field preemption), or even when Congress just says so (express preemption), the federal law wins and the state law is unenforceable.

    Rejecting Trump’s argument, Judge Hellerstein found, “The Indictment does not intrude on FECA’s domain.” The judge found that the case centered on document falsification, and that collateral impact of the kind presented here on a federal election failed to constitute a sufficient basis for federal preemption of state criminal charges. After a lengthy analysis of applicable cases and other authorities, he concluded that the “mere fact that Trump is alleged to have engaged in fraudulent conduct with respect to a federal election is not a basis for preemption.” Trump ultimately chose to abandon his appeal of Hellerstein’s ruling.
    The federal court issued that ruling last July. The ruling can be read here: (25 page PDF)


    No doubt it's available other places, you could try eg Court Listener (great resource).



    Your OpEd writers may think that the election-related charges ought to be preempted, but an actual federal judge thought otherwise, and it was all decided 9 or 10 months ago.





  7. #67
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    Re: Trump Trials

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I’m still amazed that Liberals keep trying to admonish the “insurrection” that was just a bunch of drunk people walking into an open and unlocked building to take selfies...
    Wowwwww.

    Here's some photos of that peaceful crowd of amiable drunks strolling into an open and unlocked building:


















    Probably the injured police officers just beat themselves with saps before walking to the hospital. Just to make the events look more dramatic.



    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Until that bridge is gapped, conversations between the two sides will be difficult,
    I guess I agree with you. Until Republicans get their heads out of Trump's ass, productive conversation between the two sides will be at best "difficult".





  8. #68
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    Re: Trump Trials

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    Isn't Zipcode the same guy who swore up and down Trump was going to get nailed for the Russia Collusion thing, only to disappear when that turned out like intelligent people thought it would?
    Sort of?

    • I'm pretty sure I never said "Trump was going to get nailed for it." Pretty sure I maintained that the Repub-controlled senate was going to bury all the evidence they could before voting to acquit. Trump was guilty of it, and Repubs would let him slide. That's what intelligent people thought would happen.

    And that's exactly what did happen.

    • This subforum is such a self-congratulatory circle jerk of right-wingnuts that it honestly is difficult to stomach.
    The football side of the operation is a zillion times more palatable.

    There are two specific exchanges I remember:


    1. After Charlottesville (2017?), you and I were arguing in a thread about the violence there. And you claimed that left-wing media was lying about Trump saying there was violence "on both sides" at Charlottesville.

    I POSTED THE FUCKING VIDEO IN THE THREAD! I also spent some time trying to transcribe his remarks directly from the vid (rather than relying on a report), using en-dashed for false starts rather than ellipses, so as not to elide anything.

    And you persisted trying to gaslight, claiming that he never said it. Like Democrats' eyes and ears don't work.


    2. In one thread I was talking about abortion with someone – I think the other poster was NCRaven? – and I made this overture to see if we could find some common ground: Here, I'll stipulate that abortion is murder, and you stipulate that anti-choice is a form of slavery, and let's see where that gets us.

    And the other poster selectively quoted my post and bragged Nyah nyah see you ADMIT that abortion is murder!

    It was such a breathtaking display of intellectual dishonesty – such a proud and un-selfconscious display – it conclusively established the uselessness of continuing to interact with the right-wingnuts here.



    All that was well before the Russia collusion stuff, if I have my timelines right. I came back down here for the impeachment(s), because I felt someone should be saying the truth to you all, even though it was a wasted effort. "Quixotic" if it weren't so depressing. But overall this subforum is not a pleasant place.

    Oh, and I may have posted in the TV/movie thread.





    There's a tribal aspect to right-wingnut thinking, and "tribal" is exactly the word I want, but I think I'm using it differently from how that word is usually deployed.

    In some Native American tribes*, there was a distinct difference between what behavior was acceptable toward other members of the tribe, versus what behavior was acceptable toward people outside the trible.

    — Within the tribe you deal honestly and fairly. You don't lie, cheat or steal.

    — Outside of the tribe, anything goes. Lie, cheat & steal as much as you can. This is praiseworthy.

    I've been convinced for a number of year now that modern-era Republicans – NOT traditional 20th-century Republicans, but Repubs in the era of Fox News and esp Trump – are "tribal" in that particular way. It's perfectly reasonable to lie/cheat/steal Democrats & Liberals, because they're only Democrats & Liberals. Not people who actually count.

    I suspect that model applies even more strongly to the Fundamentalist or Baptist Christian wing. Like Moslems, they feel that it doesn't matter if you lie/cheat/steal unbelievers, because they're unbelievers. Not people who actually count.
    (I don't have that same opinion about old-world Christian denominations; Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans etc etc. My intuition is that the proudly-lying aspect is limited to the American-born denominations. Whereas the old-world denominations tend to stay a little more closely tied to traditional pieties.
    I have absolutely nothing to back that up with. Zip, zilch. It's just an impression.)



    Anyway – the understanding that the "other side" of the argument has no compunction whatoever about lying, or intellectual dishonestly, or fobbing off with the most bullshit & insincere arguments that they know hold no water but you will have to spend time tracking down the facts – that means there's damn little incentive to post in this sub-forum.

    Unless theres a very specific topic.

    So: yeah I disappeared when impeachment was over. But I would frame that differently from how you did.


    _________________________________________
    * Yeesh, I hope this isn't some bullshit stereotype I picked up from, like, Louis L'Amour novels or someplace. That would be insulting as hell of me.
    It's such a useful model for understanding modern Repubs that I would be loath to give it up.





  9. #69
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    Re: Trump Trials

    Quote Originally Posted by ThankyouArt! View Post
    Am I OK with that? Hell no! what gives you the idea from my post I would be? I believe Ashely Babbit was murdered, I did see the video and no way was she a threat. The officer should have been charged.
    Holy shit!

    An armed attacker (Babbit had a Para Force folding knife) gets herself boosted thru a broken second-floor window into a hall where police were guarding members of congress – after the police ordered her and the rest of the crowd several times to get back – and she's the victim?!?

    Y'all are insane.

    IN.
    SANE.

    If celebrants of The Purge were trying to break into your home, and you retreated upstairs with your family, and one of them came thru a second-floor window into the hall where your family was, you would think shooting them was justified no matter what the height/weight/sex of the attacker.

    Any Republican who claims otherwise is lying. Flat-out lying.





  10. #70
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    Re: Trump Trials

    Ugh, I gotta quit engaging with the bullshit. Exhausting; and it distracts from my main purposes in the thread.

    My plan is to post about (NY) a couple of potent Trump defenses, and one problem for the defense (and maybe something on contempt); and (DC) the eventful and surprising oral arguments about immunity.

    Random, slightly tangential question: does anyone remember the TV show "Room 222"? It aired 1969-74. I have an out-of-left-field metaphor I want to make tying an episode of that show to the NY trial. Which makes me wonder if anyone else in the world remembers that show.



    Those posts might take a couple days. I got a medium-sized exam for CPE on Monday that I have to study for, and I'm solo-parenting the teenager til my wife gets back from her work conference. And posting in here takes rather more effort that shooting off-the-cuff in the football forum.





  11. #71

    Re: Trump Trials

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    The successful coup was the intentional release of the COVID-19 virus.


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    Absolutely, if you remember one of the issues Trump had was with China and the trade imbalance. He spoke about it for years, remember the Oprah Winfrey interview from when he was like 30 yrs old? He mentioned it then, as soon as he became President he went to work on getting China to negotiate a new trade deal. He came out and said he had China sign the first of a multi stage agreement. It wasn't two weeks later we hear the first reports of Covid. Covid was no accident. I will bet Trump if elected will not revisit the negotiations. I personally also believe that China had a hand in the 2020 election.......... But that's pure speculation. I also don't believe Trump will be re-elected. .

    No one is going to convince me that the corpse Joe Biden got more votes then any other President in the history of the United States. We have to ask ourselves, does Trump lose any support from what he received in votes from the 2020 election? He received more votes in 2020 then he did in 2016. Biden would have to duplicate what he did in 2020...........with this economy? Two new wars going on? Inflation? and he gets more votes then anyone in history again? Two huge issues Biden can't run from or dress up, the economy and illegal immigration and what that's doing to our big cities.
    Always buying Antique and vintage items......





  12. #72

    Re: Trump Trials

    How was COVID 19 a coup? Trump was in power the whole time lmao.

    The only attempt at overturning an election was Jan 6

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