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  1. #241
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    Re: Hot Seat Harbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Is that really what you believe. I know you saw those same Huntley games I did. Harbaugh got him to the Pro Bowl?

    Harbaugh, left before Billick came

    Mitchell, end of his career

    Grbac, end of his career

    McNair, end of his career

    Those guys were done and never played again when they left Baltimore

    Chris Redman got seriously hurt. He had major back surgery and wasn't able to make a NFL team for 4 years.

    Kyle Boller. We all saw Boller here and elsewere.

    I am not someone who is trashing Harbaugh. The only negative thing I said about Harbaugh is that he's not a likable person. I also wrote how good a coach is. Wanting to see what Billick would have done with Flacco is not some sort of endightment of Harbaugh. Harbaugh's record speaks for itself which is why he's going into year 17 and won't be leaving soon unless he wants to
    I know you brought up Huntley to make a point about Pro Bowls being useless. So it was a little tongue-in-cheek. But let's face it, the guy is not a very talented QB. Hard to argue that the Ravens coaching staff -- i.e. Harbaugh -- didn't get the absolute most out of him that anyone could get. He almost won a playoff game for chrissake.

    My mistake on Jim Harbaugh, but Mitchell, McNair, and Grbac were at the end of their career largely because of how badly things went for them in Baltimore. Mitchell was only 31 here, and he did play two more years in Cincy. And Grbac was only 31 also. It's not like these guys were old, ghost-of-Peyton-Manning kind of washed up. They were only a year or two removed from significant success in the league.

    And yes, we all saw Boller. He wasn't any good after he left Baltimore, but then again, neither was Joe Flacco. And my question is, how much did the coaching affect Boller's development? There is no question Flacco was put in a position to succeed. And I would argue Boller was definitely not. I'm not saying Boller would have been an All Pro in a different system. But he might have been a serviceable NFL QB, just like Flacco was.

    This is an interesting listen for that perspective: https://www.baltimoreravens.com/audi...uy-kyle-boller

    Yeah, you can point to each individual and come up with a reason why he wasn't good. But they all did worse under Billick than they did elsewhere. Like ALL of them. Is that really a coincidence?
    "Chin up, chest out."





  2. #242
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    Re: Hot Seat Harbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by HotInHere View Post
    I know you brought up Huntley to make a point about Pro Bowls being useless. So it was a little tongue-in-cheek. But let's face it, the guy is not a very talented QB. Hard to argue that the Ravens coaching staff -- i.e. Harbaugh -- didn't get the absolute most out of him that anyone could get. He almost won a playoff game for chrissake.

    My mistake on Jim Harbaugh, but Mitchell, McNair, and Grbac were at the end of their career largely because of how badly things went for them in Baltimore. Mitchell was only 31 here, and he did play two more years in Cincy. And Grbac was only 31 also. It's not like these guys were old, ghost-of-Peyton-Manning kind of washed up. They were only a year or two removed from significant success in the league.

    And yes, we all saw Boller. He wasn't any good after he left Baltimore, but then again, neither was Joe Flacco. And my question is, how much did the coaching affect Boller's development? There is no question Flacco was put in a position to succeed. And I would argue Boller was definitely not. I'm not saying Boller would have been an All Pro in a different system. But he might have been a serviceable NFL QB, just like Flacco was.

    This is an interesting listen for that perspective: https://www.baltimoreravens.com/audi...uy-kyle-boller

    Yeah, you can point to each individual and come up with a reason why he wasn't good. But they all did worse under Billick than they did elsewhere. Like ALL of them. Is that really a coincidence?
    I would have liked to see Boller under Holmgren. I think a coach like that would have helped his career.





  3. #243
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    Re: Hot Seat Harbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    I would have liked to see Boller under Holmgren. I think a coach like that would have helped his career.
    Maybe if he'd started with him when Boller was 12.





  4. #244
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    Re: Hot Seat Harbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    Maybe if he'd started with him when Boller was 12.
    He had the tools. He looked like Joe Montana once at home game against Green Bay. He had shit for coaches. Trust me, I had plenty of bad to say about the dude, but the Ravens did him no favor with the dynotopian and glacier pace at which the team attacks changing offensive philosophy.

    Hell, we nearly lost Lamar over it.

    Further proof? Win a Super Bowl, hey Joe, we are trading Anquan, so fuck you.





  5. #245
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    Re: Hot Seat Harbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    Maybe if he'd started with him when Boller was 12.
    I think if he would have went to Green Bay and received the coaching Rodgers got it could have been completely different from what Boller was in Baltimore. They completely broke Rodgers down n coached him up and he got to sit for multiple years with no pressure to play and win right away





  6. #246

    Re: Hot Seat Harbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    He had the tools. He looked like Joe Montana once at home game against Green Bay. He had shit for coaches. Trust me, I had plenty of bad to say about the dude, but the Ravens did him no favor with the dynotopian and glacier pace at which the team attacks changing offensive philosophy.

    Hell, we nearly lost Lamar over it.

    Further proof? Win a Super Bowl, hey Joe, we are trading Anquan, so fuck you.
    Lmao, last sentence is perfect





  7. #247
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    Re: Hot Seat Harbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    He had the tools. He looked like Joe Montana once at home game against Green Bay. He had shit for coaches. Trust me, I had plenty of bad to say about the dude, but the Ravens did him no favor with the dynotopian and glacier pace at which the team attacks changing offensive philosophy.

    Hell, we nearly lost Lamar over it.

    Further proof? Win a Super Bowl, hey Joe, we are trading Anquan, so fuck you.
    Oh captain my captain





  8. #248
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    Re: Hot Seat Harbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Twitch11 View Post
    Elvis Grbac was 30 and a Pro Bowler when the Ravens signed him. One year with Billick had him crying on the sidelines and retiring shortly after.
    He was also as divisive for the Chiefs fan base as any player here has ever been, including Lamar during the contract talks.

    They had two camps, the Grbackers and the Grbashers. Yes, they even had those names.

    Pro Bowls don't really speak to a player's real value. Flacco NEVER went to a Pro Bowl. Are you going to contend Grbac was a better QB? Tyler Huntley?
    Last edited by Greg; 04-02-2024 at 07:56 PM.





  9. #249

    Re: Hot Seat Harbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    He had the tools. He looked like Joe Montana once at home game against Green Bay. He had shit for coaches. Trust me, I had plenty of bad to say about the dude, but the Ravens did him no favor with the dynotopian and glacier pace at which the team attacks changing offensive philosophy.

    Hell, we nearly lost Lamar over it.

    Further proof? Win a Super Bowl, hey Joe, we are trading Anquan, so fuck you.

    I agree 1000% with that last sentence.


    Lets trade away our best offensive player for nothing to the team we just beat in the superbowl after the guy declared he wanted to be a Raven for life.


    The optics of that trade tarnishes Ozzie Newsomes hall of fame career as a GM





  10. #250

    Re: Hot Seat Harbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensfan7716 View Post
    I agree 1000% with that last sentence.


    Lets trade away our best offensive player for nothing to the team we just beat in the superbowl after the guy declared he wanted to be a Raven for life.


    The optics of that trade tarnishes Ozzie Newsomes hall of fame career as a GM
    It makes you wonder if the negotiations got personal. The transaction seemed uncharacteristically emotional/hot.

    "Right player, right price" works because it's emotionally distant. "Best player available" works because it removes or discounts the consideration of need and the all of the analytical warping that "need" can do.

    For Boldin to be traded because of two million dollars -- surely there were other players on the roster who weren't at the "right price." If you are going to pay the wrong price then pay it to a guy who's meaningful and has the possibility of "overperforming." Save two million by cutting/renegotiating the backup tackle and seventh DB, and long-snapper, but not Boldin. Unless, of course, it is more than money involved.





  11. #251

    Re: Hot Seat Harbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensfan7716 View Post
    Its funny how no one bothered to mentioned those facts about how bad all those QB signings were in the billick era before trying to boast how Harbaugh is so great.


    If Billick had either Flacco or Lamar, he would have had multiple superbowl titles and his record and tenure would have been twice what it was.

    In that era, QB and RB were the two most important positions on offense and they never had a good QB
    Except the terrible points you make have been refuted many times in this thread. Itís not just luck harbaugh got Lamar and billick got grbac and boller, both coaches had a hand in these decisions for good or bad.

    Additionally try this thought experiment. How many Super Bowls does harbaugh win with ray/Ed/Suggs/Ogden? Probably more than billick.





  12. #252

    Re: Hot Seat Harbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Forgettable1 View Post
    It makes you wonder if the negotiations got personal. The transaction seemed uncharacteristically emotional/hot.

    "Right player, right price" works because it's emotionally distant. "Best player available" works because it removes or discounts the consideration of need and the all of the analytical warping that "need" can do.

    For Boldin to be traded because of two million dollars -- surely there were other players on the roster who weren't at the "right price." If you are going to pay the wrong price then pay it to a guy who's meaningful and has the possibility of "overperforming." Save two million by cutting/renegotiating the backup tackle and seventh DB, and long-snapper, but not Boldin. Unless, of course, it is more than money involved.

    I think John Boy wanted to help out little brother and traded them their best player.

    We then lost Smith to them as well, and we ended up with Bum ass Crabtree few years later.


    Ozzie admitted once Boldin was 1 player that got away from them and they still traded him. I thnk the mutiny that year, Harbaugh winning a ring he gained too much power.


    Just my perspective. The bullshit reason we heard was to save money and spend on defense, they got like Michael Huff and someone else who were never any good.





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