Admit it one more time

**Rxdoxx** · 03-21-2024, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Goode05

Just because you have a good year as dc with at stacked roster doesn’t mean you will be a good headcoach. See Staley

Cam Cameron, Josh McDaniel, there are a bunch of examples of people who can run their department, but can't handle the public/media/team relationships/individual motivations ...
ton more goes into the job than Xs and Os, and Harbs has the skills, I know we hate the vague pablum he feeds the press.

No Dennis Green

The Bears are what we thought they were. They're what we thought they were. We played 'em in preseason — who the hell takes the third game of the preseason like it's bullshit? Bullshit! We played 'em in the third game — everybody played three quarters — the Bears are who we thought they were! And that's the way we took the damn field! Now if you want to crown 'em, then crown their ass! But they are who we thought they were! And we let 'em off the hook!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Green

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/spor...s_him/1842371/

It's more about them, than it is the team. You can not play with them. You can not win with them. You can not coach with them, can't do it."

Can you even picture Harbs losing it even close to that? He a great team management coach, maybe some controversy on calls, but I've seen too many bad from Frank Kush to Urban Meyer

Closing with a quote

Spurrier reflected that the Redskins might not have been the best choice for his jump to the NFL. "I went to the team that offered the most money instead of the best situation", he said. And in 2015, he told David Feherty that, "The owner and the personnel guys, they picked the team. I couldn’t even pick the quarterback the second year. So I knew it wasn’t going to work, but that's ok. I probably didn’t do a very good job, and the situation wasn’t what I was looking for, so it was time to move on."In an interview with The Washington Post in 2019, Spurrier said of his time in Washington that "I did a lousy job. The GM did a lousy job. He happened to be the owner, so who needed to go?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Spurrier

**purple_city39** · 03-21-2024, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dale

A few points to make. What if MM had been named HC. Does anyone think we may still have Weaver or Wilson as DC?

While the Ravens have been competitive during Harbs' tenure, we have failed badly in the playoffs in the last 10+years.

During the first part of his tenure we had 3 HOF players in addition to other Alphas on the team to help overcome Harbs' faults.

Harbs IMO is a head strong HC who wants to be in control. After Ray's retirement the team hasn't had THAT leader.

Lamar isn't THAT guy yet. Roq isn't THAT guy yet. We don't currently have THAT guy. Maybe someone becomes THAT guy.

Until we have THAT guy who can lead the team, I don't see us overcoming Harbs' faults. Here's hoping someone steps up.

As someone that's criticized Harbaugh a lot since the championship game, I'll say he's a fantastic motivator. His players play hard for him. Sonce 2013, he's received a lot of praise from former players (the 2012 defensive guys didn't seem to be big fans of his).

My primary issue with him is his refusal to step in when things aren't going as they should. He just stands back at times and lets his coordinators continue what even fans can see isn't working. I want a HC who will step in and tell his OC "run the damn ball, the pass isn't working" or "why the hell are you forcing the run when it isn't working and the passing game is killing them"

**RavenXbio** · 03-21-2024, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by purple_city39

As someone that's criticized Harbaugh a lot since the championship game, I'll say he's a fantastic motivator. His players play hard for him. Sonce 2013, he's received a lot of praise from former players (the 2012 defensive guys didn't seem to be big fans of his).

My primary issue with him is his refusal to step in when things aren't going as they should. He just stands back at times and lets his coordinators continue what even fans can see isn't working. I want a HC who will step in and tell his OC "run the damn ball, the pass isn't working" or "why the hell are you forcing the run when it isn't working and the passing game is killing them"

Also well said, I don’t think anyone likes how passive he appears to be when it comes to changing approach mid game

**balbomb** · 03-22-2024, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Dale

A few points to make. What if MM had been named HC. Does anyone think we may still have Weaver or Wilson as DC?

While the Ravens have been competitive during Harbs' tenure, we have failed badly in the playoffs in the last 10+years.

During the first part of his tenure we had 3 HOF players in addition to other Alphas on the team to help overcome Harbs' faults.

Harbs IMO is a head strong HC who wants to be in control. After Ray's retirement the team hasn't had THAT leader.

Lamar isn't THAT guy yet. Roq isn't THAT guy yet. We don't currently have THAT guy. Maybe someone becomes THAT guy.

Until we have THAT guy who can lead the team, I don't see us overcoming Harbs' faults. Here's hoping someone steps up.

So you are preemptively saying if we win more playoff games then you will give all credit to players and none to harbaugh.

**RavenXbio** · 03-22-2024, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by balbomb

So you are preemptively saying if we win more playoff games then you will give all credit to players and none to harbaugh.

Think you might be swinging to the extreme against what he is saying but that’s just how I read his post

**blueridgemtnman** · 03-22-2024, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by RavenXbio

Also well said, I don’t think anyone likes how passive he appears to be when it comes to changing approach mid game

^^^That right there.....bingo^^^

**jonboy79** · 03-22-2024, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by RavenXbio

Also well said, I don’t think anyone likes how passive he appears to be when it comes to changing approach mid game

There is something to be said of trusting the people you put into positions to do their job. One of the signs of a good leader is one that surrounds himself with the right people and then lets them do their jobs.

There is also something to be said for periodically checking in and verifying the work being done is quality, and intervening when it is not.

Above all, however, basically what people are suggesting is that Harbaugh failed by not forcibly taking the ball out of Lamar’s hands and vetoing his ability to audible when he had that all season. That’s a good way to lose Lamar’s trust forever. Maybe losing the battle can win the war. Maybe Lamar now knows that Harbaugh will keep giving him the chance to win the game, will keep entrusting him with the success of his team.

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**JimZipCode** · 03-22-2024, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Goode05

Just because you have a good year as dc with at stacked roster doesn’t mean you will be a good headcoach. See Staley

This.

**joedirt** · 03-22-2024, 11:37 AM

People blame Harbaugh for the loss in the Championship game for not running enough are the same people who most wanted to give Lamar whatever he wanted contract wise. You pay the QB all that money you expect him to be able to pass the team to victory. If not why are you paying him all that money? Plus we had multiple first round picks at receiver and a couple of good tight ends. At the end of the day I think dumb penalties are what cost us the game.

**jonboy79** · 03-22-2024, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by joedirt

People blame Harbaugh for the loss in the Championship game for not running enough are the same people who most wanted to give Lamar whatever he wanted contract wise. You pay the QB all that money you expect him to be able to pass the team to victory. If not why are you paying him all that money? Plus we had multiple first round picks at receiver and a couple of good tight ends. At the end of the day I think dumb penalties are what cost us the game.

Also the same people that wanted Lamar to have the most time and control and ability to audible at the line as well as run the most heavy pass- focused scheme.

Yes, the same people are complaining about getting exactly what they asked for and seeing that it didn’t work, and now they still want it again.

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**Dale** · 03-22-2024, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by purple_city39

As someone that's criticized Harbaugh a lot since the championship game, I'll say he's a fantastic motivator. His players play hard for him. Sonce 2013, he's received a lot of praise from former players (the 2012 defensive guys didn't seem to be big fans of his).

My primary issue with him is his refusal to step in when things aren't going as they should. He just stands back at times and lets his coordinators continue what even fans can see isn't working. I want a HC who will step in and tell his OC "run the damn ball, the pass isn't working" or "why the hell are you forcing the run when it isn't working and the passing game is killing them"

I agree. I understand he likes to delegate to his coaches but sometimes the HC has to make the tough decisions in a timely manner. Sometimes I think he's either to slow to make the tough decisions. That's one of the reasons I believe if we don't have THAT guy on the field to step up and make the tough plays we'll always struggle. I don't trust Harbs to make those tough decisions consistently.

**RavenXbio** · 03-22-2024, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by joedirt

People blame Harbaugh for the loss in the Championship game for not running enough are the same people who most wanted to give Lamar whatever he wanted contract wise. You pay the QB all that money you expect him to be able to pass the team to victory. If not why are you paying him all that money? Plus we had multiple first round picks at receiver and a couple of good tight ends. At the end of the day I think dumb penalties are what cost us the game.

I’ve said lamar and harbs both sucked ass in that game