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  1. #61
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    Re: The Transgender Lobby - who's funding the madness?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeRaven View Post
    Im engaging in discussion and debate right now, Your post is just attacking me. I think you are being the hypocrite.

    If you'd like to make the argument that Transgender people have been historically well accepted in the united states instead of attacking posters, I'd love to hear it

    As long as the U.S is a majority christian nation and LGBT is always be antithetical to that.
    Well accepted? That is impossible to quantify in any case, but I would not say "well accepted." However, is someone else does you can't say they are wrong, only that you see it differently. He might be thinking "they aren't killed here like in many places, so they are well accepted."

    Most Christians I know have no issue with letting people live as transgenders if they want. I wouldn't say it is antithetical to Christianity. Many Christians are quite affirming of LGBTQ people. Others, like me, see it as their business but that it is not what is best for them in the long run.

    I don't know any Christians that are for beating them up or forcing them to live as we do. AAMOF, Christians are probably the most tolerant people in regard to live and let live. It's the teaching of Jesus. It doesn't mean we or Jesus approve of certain lifestyles, but we are instructed to not force anybody to live any way.

    And if you doubt this, where freedom of religion is part of the culture, those are mostly Christian based (or historically were) cultures.





  2. #62
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    Re: The Transgender Lobby - who's funding the madness?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeRaven View Post
    Wait so you guys don't believe that Trans people always existed and are a recent phenomenon of mental illness?

    You should look up the rates of left handedness.

    People used some Bible verse to demonize the left handed people and forced them to change, once that stopped rates of left handed people shot up.

    And I'll never agree that violence against any group of people is their fault.

    Is there evidence that conversion therapy is effective for Trans People or is the sensibilities of society the primary concern?

    Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
    This is from Cornell University, hardly a bastion for conservative though.





  3. #63
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    Re: The Transgender Lobby - who's funding the madness?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeRaven View Post
    Would you consider Federally legal gay marriage and Black kids being bused to white schools protected by police officers acceptance or forced approval?



    Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
    First, there is no such thing as federal marriage. The SC decided that states had to marry same sex couples. That said, those justices were appointed by politicians who were elected by the people. That is at least a tacit acceptance by those who voted for those politicians who then put those justices in place.

    Was busing a good thing? That's beside the point, but it was, IMHO, bad policy. They should have just put excellent teachers in the "black" schools. However, again, the politicians voted for or put in administrators and/or judges who brought about this change.

    You know as well as I do the police were needed to protect those kids from a very small minority of people.

    And finally, that was a very long time ago and this culture did change for the better in regard to racism.





  4. #64
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    Re: The Transgender Lobby - who's funding the madness?

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    No, no it doesn’t. You’ve fallen victim to an internet ‘truth’ that people circulate without actually examining the details. You want to believe it, so you will. But hey, its still not a defense of why men should be allowed to play women’s sports or people get labeled bigots for there are only two sexes and biological men cant have babies or menstruate
    He has avoided answering your questions like the plaque. I'd also like to ask him if he believes it's OK for men, who still have their swinging richards, be allowed in women's bathrooms/showers or for kids under 18 years old to take hormone blockers and/or have trans surgery.





  5. #65

    Re: The Transgender Lobby - who's funding the madness?

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMunin View Post
    Thank you. This is very intersting, but I would respectfully ask where is the common good and especially do no harm with this collateral damage thinking? Theres only medical industrial complex profit, mutilated children and death for many children.

    And what is a true transsexual anyway? Trans=moving beyond, so, Transsexual=Moving beyond your sex because mutilating what was given at birth does not change your sex from one to another. And if a major identification of what makes you a human is your male or femle gender, for the purpose of reproducing, and that is subtracted, you have become beyond human, Transhuman.
    Well, the "common good" and "do no harm" issues aren't particularly clear. What is clear is that many people are motivated by a senses of caring, fairness, and equality. They don't like seeing people hurt or discriminated against. So, those people will turn off or down their brain and turn on or up their heart when they hear someone say, "I won't be hurt and will feel better if you call me X and permit me drug Y." You can see and hear this when someone replies, "Why can't you just use the pronoun? What does it cost you compared to the price of peace of mind of this trans person?"

    By the phrase "true transexual" I am referring to people who have a grappled with their sexual identity in severe ways for a prolonged time and have taken significant commitments to change sex. I use the term to distinguish those people from people in a position similar to the classmate of my neighbor's eighth grade son who, when asked if he has girlfriend, replied 'No. Not yet. I like girls and won't let them change me."

    He felt the tug (from classmates, teachers, society?) to be something other than straight and a boy. He resisted the pull. Others do not. Those others have just hopped aboard or have been dragged on this train. (I half heartedly joke with a friend that had I not played Dungeons and Dragons in the sixth grade then all of my effort developing a fantasy me in some Tolkien-like world would today be re-directed and corralled into playing Gender Unicorn where my identity wouldn't be based on personal disposition and reinforced by Race, Class, Alignment, but by Sex, Expression, Attraction).

    But to your point, there is no such thing as a "true" transexual because it is impossible to change the brain and body from one sex to another.





  6. #66

    Re: The Transgender Lobby - who's funding the madness?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeRaven View Post
    I'm just saying that there is history of "forced approval" in the United States that goes against the sensibilities of persons.

    If I'm not mistaken the freeing of the slaves required some force as well.

    If the U.S never forced approval for certain groups we wouldn't be where we are now with civil rights, agree or disagree?


    I would agrue the first and second amendment could be considered forced approval, no?


    Also relating the civil rights of one minority to another is not racist, there are historical facts.

    Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

    Well, laws don't force approval (a mental state), laws force behavior (and frequently that force is justified or authorized not by virtue of...virtue, but by the exercise of the Commerce Clause. Discrimination places a drag on commerce. Congress can regulate commerce and the things that affect commerce.)

    The idea being that if we force people to behave a certain way then their thoughts (the approval) will follow. So, once we look you in the room for a month with that guy who wears the funny cloths, speaks the funny language, practices the funny religion, eats the funny things and blah blah blah, eventually you'll come to realize that you two have plenty in common and that your animosity and wariness was misplaced. "Trust us. You and we will be better for it. So do it...or else."

    The principle problem with all anti-discrimination laws is their coercion amounts to forced association. The law makes it difficult to say, "No. Leave me alone. Don't foist this person on me. I have but one life. I want to live it with the people I like, even if my likes and dislikes are irrational."
    Last edited by Forgettable1; 01-17-2024 at 01:04 AM.





  7. #67
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    Re: The Transgender Lobby - who's funding the madness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forgettable1 View Post
    Well, the "common good" and "do no harm" issues aren't particularly clear. What is clear is that many people are motivated by a senses of caring, fairness, and equality. They don't like seeing people hurt or discriminated against. So, those people will turn off or down their brain and turn on or up their heart when they hear someone say, "I won't be hurt and will feel better if you call me X and permit me drug Y." You can see and hear this when someone replies, "Why can't you just use the pronoun? What does it cost you compared to the price of peace of mind of this trans person?"

    By the phrase "true transexual" I am referring to people who have a grappled with their sexual identity in severe ways for a prolonged time and have taken significant commitments to change sex. I use the term to distinguish those people from people in a position similar to the classmate of my neighbor's eighth grade son who, when asked if he has girlfriend, replied 'No. Not yet. I like girls and won't let them change me."

    He felt the tug (from classmates, teachers, society?) to be something other than straight and a boy. He resisted the pull. Others do not. Those others have just hopped aboard or have been dragged on this train. (I half heartedly joke with a friend that had I not played Dungeons and Dragons in the sixth grade then all of my effort developing a fantasy me in some Tolkien-like world would today be re-directed and corralled into playing Gender Unicorn where my identity wouldn't be based on personal disposition and reinforced by Race, Class, Alignment, but by Sex, Expression, Attraction).

    But to your point, there is no such thing as a "true" transexual because it is impossible to change the brain and body from one sex to another.
    Its hard for many minds scientifically half mature to not hop on the crazy train when an entire book of spells is defined, created and then protected by the legal construct created along with it, once broadcasted out as the new cool and by their own "educators" no less. I wouldve skipped the Gender thing and went straight to being a furry, identifying as a Lion.
    Politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex. ― Frank Zappa





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