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  1. #49
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    Re: Help me make sense of this

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Faith.

    If you read A Free People's Suicide by Oz Guiness you will begin to understand my answer. If you read Paul's letters in the New Testament you will see the rest of the answer.

    To be truly free, which is what the 70s liberals argued for these people, there are things that must be in place. For people to be truly free from government interference they have to have virtue. For a people to have virtue they have to have faith that encompasses some kind of objective morality to which they freely hold themselves to.

    These people are not virtuous, like much of our culture these days. Their particular brand of straying from the virtuous path has led them into addiction and mental illness (with some exceptions of brain disorders).

    If people are to live freely they must be virtuous on their own. These people are not virtuous and thus must be pulled off the street and put back into sanitariums where perhaps they can be helped and then put onto a path that leads them back to be capable of being free. The current situation is not tenable.

    I would also add that there is evil infecting our culture. It weaves its way in as something else, a smiling face with the knife at the ready behind the back. This is where faith is needed. We need to turn from this evil as a nation.

    The exploding confusion over gender is just one glaring example of this evil. Confusion is a state of mind, but it is also an agent of evil. Murdering unborn life is yet another example.

    And if you doubt that virtue is necessary, one simply need to look at the corruption, particularly in our government, that pervades our culture. We have an excellent example of that on display as I type.
    You know….I actually agree with a lot of this Greg. You know I don’t believe in organized religion, but I do believe in a higher power. That said …the problem is which God should we the people seek guidance from? We can’t agree on that so how will we ever agree to guidance?

    For those that don’t know….the 12 step program from AA or NA is faith based. They need you to embrace a higher power. Seek strength and guidance from that higher power. Now that’s fine unless you’re an Atheist. Then what? Can’t be clean? This program works. I’ve seen it first hand ,but again …there’s the what if. We Americans are a headstrong bunch. Especially our young people. While there is a decline in faith for us old people …did our youth ever have it? Do kids still attend Sunday Achool? Summer Bible school ? Any church ? I doubt it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





  2. #50
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    Re: Help me make sense of this

    Quote Originally Posted by Laxdad24 View Post
    You know….I actually agree with a lot of this Greg. You know I don’t believe in organized religion, but I do believe in a higher power. That said …the problem is which God should we the people seek guidance from? We can’t agree on that so how will we ever agree to guidance?

    For those that don’t know….the 12 step program from AA or NA is faith based. They need you to embrace a higher power. Seek strength and guidance from that higher power. Now that’s fine unless you’re an Atheist. Then what? Can’t be clean? This program works. I’ve seen it first hand ,but again …there’s the what if. We Americans are a headstrong bunch. Especially our young people. While there is a decline in faith for us old people …did our youth ever have it? Do kids still attend Sunday Achool? Summer Bible school ? Any church ? I doubt it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    There is an objective morality we all understand, for the most part. Don't murder, don't steal, treat others with respect, etc. A moral system can only be objective and universal if there is a God. We don't need to agree on which one to get that far.

    As for faith in this country, there is a movie out now called Jesus Revolution about the late 60s and early 70s Jesus movement, particularly around hippies. I believe we are in for something similar but on a grander scale. As people watch our culture spin out of control where "elites" can't even explain what a woman is there will be a real search for truth and deeper meaning.

    And as a Christian I am confident it will be in Jesus where most find these things.





  3. #51

    Re: Help me make sense of this

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    A moral system can only be objective and universal if there is a God.
    Absolutely untrue. You do not need a supernatural higher power to act morally. There are plenty of atheists who would never dream of killing somone, stealing, doing unethical acts. Human beings have the power to act righteous without the belief in a lord.





  4. #52

    Re: Help me make sense of this

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bynight View Post
    Absolutely untrue. You do not need a supernatural higher power to act morally. There are plenty of atheists who would never dream of killing somone, stealing, doing unethical acts. Human beings have the power to act righteous without the belief in a lord.
    Please explain how there can be an objective and universal morality without an absolute authority behind it.





  5. #53

    Re: Help me make sense of this

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    Please explain how there can be an objective and universal morality without an absolute authority behind it.
    If you believe your absolute authority has to involve a supernatural creator than nothing I say can change that belief. Oh, and I am not an atheist. But just look at the horrible things going on in the world and tell me how your absolute authority has helped victims in the Ukraine, the tornado deaths in the US, the kids and adults who were just mowed down at the school. Seems to me a belief in a higher authority never seems to stop that stuff, so my belief is that higher authority has zero impact to change events and improve the human condition. Just has caused more pain and suffering..ala Inquisitions, Holocaust, Rwanda genocide...and I can go on and on and on....so where is your proof this higher power does jack shit for people....





  6. #54

    Re: Help me make sense of this

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bynight View Post
    If you believe your absolute authority has to involve a supernatural creator than nothing I say can change that belief. Oh, and I am not an atheist. But just look at the horrible things going on in the world and tell me how your absolute authority has helped victims in the Ukraine, the tornado deaths in the US, the kids and adults who were just mowed down at the school. Seems to me a belief in a higher authority never seems to stop that stuff, so my belief is that higher authority has zero impact to change events and improve the human condition. Just has caused more pain and suffering..ala Inquisitions, Holocaust, Rwanda genocide...and I can go on and on and on....so where is your proof this higher power does jack shit for people....
    So you have taken a lot of shots at a higher authority, mainly by mistakenly intimating that He is involved in day to day things that happen. But you completely dodged the question of how you can have an objective and universal morality without an absolute authority outside source,





  7. #55
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    Re: Help me make sense of this

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bynight View Post
    Absolutely untrue. You do not need a supernatural higher power to act morally.
    Where did I say you can't act morally if there is no God?

    What I said was, and MANY atheist philosophers would agree, is that there is no objective morality if there is no God.

    If there is no God where do you get an objective morality? You don't, you get subjective moralities. And with subjective morality nothing is really right or wrong, it's just opinion.

    There are plenty of atheists who would never dream of killing somone, stealing, doing unethical acts. Human beings have the power to act righteous without the belief in a lord.
    What is righteous without objective morality?

    But indeed people do align with the objective morality even if they don't believe in God. Many are very moral people.

    But as we have moved from God and come to the belief that people have their own truths (subjective truths) our country has moved to much more government control because people are slowly not adhering to the objective morality and are going their own way. It's how you get Enrons and Bernie Madoffs. And then you need more government control, which means less freedom.

    It's right there staring us in the face.





  8. #56

    Re: Help me make sense of this

    Quote Originally Posted by bandc View Post
    Well the concern over tik tok is that the company which owns it might hand over sensitive information to the Chinese government. This seems like a worthy reason to look into banning the app.

    On the other hand, there seems to be no concern that the people who own semi automatic weapons may use them to kill mass amounts of children at a time. This is confusing to me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    … it’s because you’re not very bright.





  9. #57

    Re: Help me make sense of this

    Apparently a memo went out and all of CBS news is forbidden from mentioning the shooters gender or that the shooter might have been transgender. Even though a manifesto exists and it should be obvious why this person did what they did.

    It's the total opposite of the type of anti-white, white male as racist, while male as terrorist "jump to conclusions mat" type of journalism you see in such cases.

    Hmmmm.





  10. #58

    Re: Help me make sense of this

    Quote Originally Posted by BustOfPallas View Post
    Apparently a memo went out and all of CBS news is forbidden from mentioning the shooters gender or that the shooter might have been transgender. Even though a manifesto exists and it should be obvious why this person did what they did.

    It's the total opposite of the type of anti-white, white male as racist, while male as terrorist "jump to conclusions mat" type of journalism you see in such cases.

    Hmmmm.
    Here is that story in case anyone doubts it.


    Top executives at CBS News have banned staffers from using the word “transgender” when reporting on the Nashville shooter — despite the fact that police have said Audrey Hale was just that and cited it as a key point in the case, The Post has learned.

    “The shooter’s gender identity has not been confirmed by CBS News,” the network’s executives insisted in a Tuesday memo obtained by The Post. “As such, we should avoid any mention of it as it has no known relevance to the crime. Should that change, we can and will revisit.”

    https://nypost.com/2023/03/30/cbs-ex...n-audrey-hale/





  11. #59
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    Re: Help me make sense of this

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    Here is that story in case anyone doubts it.


    Top executives at CBS News have banned staffers from using the word “transgender” when reporting on the Nashville shooter — despite the fact that police have said Audrey Hale was just that and cited it as a key point in the case, The Post has learned.

    “The shooter’s gender identity has not been confirmed by CBS News,” the network’s executives insisted in a Tuesday memo obtained by The Post. “As such, we should avoid any mention of it as it has no known relevance to the crime. Should that change, we can and will revisit.”

    https://nypost.com/2023/03/30/cbs-ex...n-audrey-hale/
    And then there is this.

    This is what denying an objective morality, objective truth, and objective reality leads to.

    Liberals are often cognitively dissonant holding to ideas that are contradictory and don't make sense when put together. They have turned this whole country into a confused, cognitively dissonant mess.





  12. #60

    Re: Help me make sense of this

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    And then there is this.

    This is what denying an objective morality, objective truth, and objective reality leads to.

    Liberals are often cognitively dissonant holding to ideas that are contradictory and don't make sense when put together. They have turned this whole country into a confused, cognitively dissonant mess.
    Hey greg, so i know you posted some commentary on your link, you however did not post a
    Blurb from it, nor is there any discernible way to tell what the link leads to. Please follow your own request. Thanks





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