Our Beloved John Harbaugh remains.

**The Excellector** · 03-21-2023, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by beavery

I think Harbaugh has slowly become a toxic presence within the organization. His insistence on a certain type of player, certain type of scheme, incestuous hirings, nonsensical reliance on coordinators, inflexibility to change and his arrogance will really hurt this team in the very near future. What do I know, I'm just a dude at the end of the bar.

I agree with much, if not all of what you had to say. I think for Harbaugh, it’s a question of, if we lose Lamar, would that be enough for him to finally realize that he needs to consider evolving his philosophy. And I just don’t believe that answer is yes. I think that at this stage in his career, with his personality, he’s too set in his ways.

**purple_city39** · 03-21-2023, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

Negotiations shouldn’t be one sided.
Lamar doesn’t care about “that” guaranteed number, because the NFLPA told him so, the only number he cares about is fully guaranteed.

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You sure? I've noticed in the last few months that damn near everybody who's been mad at Lamar not taking the deal has at some point referenced how Roquan got paid without an agent (as a way to say it can be done). Meanwhile, Roquan never came down off the exact number he wanted. That negotiation was incredibly one sided as it was known what he wanted before he got here and he got exactly that.

Assuming you're also ignoring the alleged representative who's stated Lamar does not want a fully guaranteed deal, if you or the Ravens believe that's exactly what he wants, give his a 3 year, 150M deal. If they were gonna guarantee 133 anyway, throw in the extra amount and tell him how it'd be great for him since he'd be able to cash in on another big contract before he's 30 instead of being stuck in one until he's 30+. If he's the money hungry idiot who only cares about the words "fully guaranteed" as people keep suggesting, he'll jump at this and the Ravens will have a deal that doesn't handcuff them for half a decade

**purple_city39** · 03-21-2023, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Iamjacks

I'm going to see what happens with the situation. Monken could represent a big change, he's definitely high passing volume. Maybe the Ravens are waiting for Lamar to trade for Hopkins. There's no way Hopkins would welcome a trade without Lamar (or a young stud from the draft) being under contract. But it's possible he would if the Ravens have a good QB.

Let's see what happens with
1. Lamar/QB situation
2. Draft situation
3. Monken in the preseason

John said he's changing at the end of the year conference
Monken is a definite upgrade from Roman's passing scheme

So let's see what happens

Huh. I've been told repeatedly that WRs don't want to play with Lamar specifically. Despite all the things former Ravens WRs have said

**jonboy79** · 03-21-2023, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by purple_city39

You sure? I've noticed in the last few months that damn near everybody who's been mad at Lamar not taking the deal has at some point referenced how Roquan got paid without an agent (as a way to say it can be done). Meanwhile, Roquan never came down off the exact number he wanted. That negotiation was incredibly one sided as it was known what he wanted before he got here and he got exactly that.

Assuming you're also ignoring the alleged representative who's stated Lamar does not want a fully guaranteed deal, if you or the Ravens believe that's exactly what he wants, give his a 3 year, 150M deal. If they were gonna guarantee 133 anyway, throw in the extra amount and tell him how it'd be great for him since he'd be able to cash in on another big contract before he's 30 instead of being stuck in one until he's 30+. If he's the money hungry idiot who only cares about the words "fully guaranteed" as people keep suggesting, he'll jump at this and the Ravens will have a deal that doesn't handcuff them for half a decade

Do we know what Roquan wanted in guaranteed and that he never came off his number?

We Know Baltimore has been going up and Lamar has never come down…

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**jonboy79** · 03-21-2023, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Iamjacks

I'm going to see what happens with the situation. Monken could represent a big change, he's definitely high passing volume. Maybe the Ravens are waiting for Lamar to trade for Hopkins. There's no way Hopkins would welcome a trade without Lamar (or a young stud from the draft) being under contract. But it's possible he would if the Ravens have a good QB.

Let's see what happens with
1. Lamar/QB situation
2. Draft situation
3. Monken in the preseason

John said he's changing at the end of the year conference
Monken is a definite upgrade from Roman's passing scheme

So let's see what happens

Hopkins has no say in the matter. He does not have a no trade clause:

He can sit out and not get paid, AND get fined, that’s all he can do.

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**purple_city39** · 03-21-2023, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

Do we know what Roquan wanted in guaranteed and that he never came off his number?

We Know Baltimore has been going up and Lamar has never come down…

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No, we don't know the requested guaranteed amount. In fact, I haven't read anything stating he ever cared about the guaranteed amount. The only thing he cared about was the average and the contract not being backloaded since he assumed he wouldn't see those later amounts

Roquan Smith stated he wanted at least 20M a year average to set the off-ball LB market. He refused to come down off his price. The bears even tried multiple different offers, all of which he shot down because they weren't what he wanted. No matter what contract they offered him, he rejected it because it wasn't what he wanted (man, all this sounds familiar). The Ravens saw what he wanted and jumped at the opportunity to get him and pay him that number. He does play defense after all, so it's okay.

At the end of the day, the Ravens had two players, both without agents, who had a firm contract amount they wanted that would reset their markets. Fans praised one for getting his contract done with zero compromise on his end and have begun a smear campaign for the other for the exact same thing. What the Ravens have been willing or unwilling to pay has people attacking one man's character and praising the other even though neither have budged from their demands

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ar/ar-AA10yKS5

**jonboy79** · 03-21-2023, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by purple_city39

No, we don't know the requested guaranteed amount. In fact, I haven't read anything stating he ever cared about the guaranteed amount. The only thing he cared about was the average and the contract not being backloaded since he assumed he wouldn't see those later amounts

Roquan Smith stated he wanted at least 20M a year average to set the off-ball LB market. He refused to come down off his price. The bears even tried multiple different offers, all of which he shot down because they weren't what he wanted. No matter what contract they offered him, he rejected it because it wasn't what he wanted (man, all this sounds familiar). The Ravens saw what he wanted and jumped at the opportunity to get him and pay him that number. He does play defense after all, so it's okay.

At the end of the day, the Ravens had two players, both without agents, who had a firm contract amount they wanted that would reset their markets. Fans praised one for getting his contract done with zero compromise on his end and have begun a smear campaign for the other for the exact same thing. What the Ravens have been willing or unwilling to pay has people attacking one man's character and praising the other even though neither have budged from their demands

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...ar/ar-AA10yKS5

Exactly…

The Ravens have no issue with any of those numbers with Lamar, only the fully guaranteed amount . If Roquan was hung up in that maybe there would have been problems.

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**purple_city39** · 03-21-2023, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

Exactly…

The Ravens have no issue with any of those numbers with Lamar, only the fully guaranteed amount . If Roquan was hung up in that maybe there would have been problems.

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And I have no issue with the Ravens doing what they feel is best for them. That's their decision to make.

I do still find it interesting how fans decided to spit so much vitriol to one player while praising the other even though both hung onto their demands without compromise

**jonboy79** · 03-21-2023, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by purple_city39

And I have no issue with the Ravens doing what they feel is best for them. That's their decision to make.

I do still find it interesting how fans decided to spit so much vitriol to one player while praising the other even though both hung onto their demands without compromise

His demands are reasonable…

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**GOTA** · 03-21-2023, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Iamjacks

I'm going to see what happens with the situation. Monken could represent a big change, he's definitely high passing volume. Maybe the Ravens are waiting for Lamar to trade for Hopkins. There's no way Hopkins would welcome a trade without Lamar (or a young stud from the draft) being under contract. But it's possible he would if the Ravens have a good QB.

Let's see what happens with
1. Lamar/QB situation
2. Draft situation
3. Monken in the preseason

John said he's changing at the end of the year conference
Monken is a definite upgrade from Roman's passing scheme

So let's see what happens

I'm high on the Monken hiring and certainly want to give him a shot.

I'm not seeing Hopkins because I can't see how they fit him under the cap without a Lamar extension. The Cardinals aren't going to wait around. They're going to trade Hopkins by the draft.

This is a results driven business and I don't think Harbaugh should be saved just because Lamar didn't play or Lamar held out 10 weeks or whatever happens. The Ravens need to make the playoffs or Harbaugh shouldn't be here for a 17th year.

**balbomb** · 03-21-2023, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

I agree with much, if not all of what you had to say. I think for Harbaugh, it’s a question of, if we lose Lamar, would that be enough for him to finally realize that he needs to consider evolving his philosophy. And I just don’t believe that answer is yes. I think that at this stage in his career, with his personality, he’s too set in his ways.

Ex believes someone else is too set in their ways lol

**Super Fan** · 03-21-2023, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by beavery

I think Harbaugh has slowly become a toxic presence within the organization. His insistence on a certain type of player, certain type of scheme, incestuous hirings, nonsensical reliance on coordinators, inflexibility to change and his arrogance will really hurt this team in the very near future. What do I know, I'm just a dude at the end of the bar.

I agree. It seems that he has dragged us back to the type of football we loathed for most of his tenure. He would rather play keep away and win or lose on a last second FG. That's why 2019 was such a breathe of fresh air... blow them out from the jump! Then he went back to the same tired old school approach as before.