Allen Iverson

**The Excellector** · 03-18-2023, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by xiao_ke

Then they would have to admit how much Lamar has been carrying the offense.

This is the crux of the issue here. Deep down, everyone knows how much Lamar carries the offense. But with that reality, comes leverage. We're not going to find another QB who can come close to carrying this same offense the way Lamar did and posters on both sides of this debate know that. But some don't want to admit it, because they know Lamar is likely gone.

**Ranger** · 03-18-2023, 06:21 PM

Here’s the thing, I can not want Lamar here, and also realize he’s a good person.

If the eat a dick comment bothers you that bad, you should probably eat a dick.

You can think Lamar over values himself (me) but don’t have to make up this fantasy about how him and his mom are just dumb ghetto trash. He has been NOTHING but polite to everyone except the titans and some fat, pontificating, uninformed “expert.” In both instances he was provoked and when he defended himself people got bent.

If you don’t want him here because you think he is a doofus when it comes to negotiating and overvalued himself, fine, we’re out here. That said, if you don’t want him here because he isn’t Morgan freeman when he speaks, and that he won’t just be abused, that’s a you problem.

**RevBarnes** · 03-18-2023, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

In 2019, Mark Ingram only had 26 more carries than Lamar and that was with Lamar sitting a number of fourth quarters.

2019
Ingram 202, Jackson 176, Edwards 133

2020
Jackson 159, Edwards 144, Dobbins 134, Ingram 72

2021
Jackson (12 games) and Freeman 133, Murray 119

2022
Jackson 112 (12 games), Drake 109, Dobbins 82, Edwards, 87, Hill 49

To me we didn't have a RB1 for most of those years. Instead we had a very balanced running attack that the threat of Lamar, made better than it should have been. The running game (and the threat of Lamar) also both helped open up the passing game, but retarded its development, at the same time.

So, that doesn't change the narrative that Lamar was the straw that stirred the drink (to an unhealthy degree) or that he was better than great in 2019. It's just a question of how you define RB1.

**jonboy79** · 03-18-2023, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

This is the crux of the issue here. Deep down, everyone knows how much Lamar carries the offense. But with that reality, comes leverage. We're not going to find another QB who can come close to carrying this same offense the way Lamar did and posters on both sides of this debate know that. But some don't want to admit it, because they know Lamar is likely gone.

There is a very small chance Lamar is Gone Not sure why you can’t understand that.

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**edromeo** · 03-18-2023, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

This is the crux of the issue here. Deep down, everyone knows how much Lamar carries the offense. But with that reality, comes leverage. We're not going to find another QB who can come close to carrying this same offense the way Lamar did and posters on both sides of this debate know that. But some don't want to admit it, because they know Lamar is likely gone.

I'm one of Lamar's biggest fans, bar none. Always have been.

But, Roman's offense has been successful with QBs less talented then Lamar before.
Don't forget that Kaepernick, Roman and John's little brother were a Crabtree pass away from winning a SB.

The list of QBs that could be good in Roman's scheme is the list of the best dual threat QBs in the NFL.

**RevBarnes** · 03-18-2023, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by edromeo

I'm one of Lamar's biggest fans, bar none. Always have been.

But, Roman's offense has been successful with QBs less talented then Lamar before.
Don't forget that Kaepernick, Roman and John's little brother were a Crabtree pass away from winning a SB.

The list of QBs that could be good in Roman's scheme is the list of the best dual threat QBs in the NFL.

And would you agree that for Lamar to develop into more of a conventional QB, Roman's offense had to go?

**jonboy79** · 03-18-2023, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by RevBarnes

And would you agree that for Lamar to develop into more of a conventional QB, Roman's offense had to go?

Yes, but is that necessarily going to produce better results? No….

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**edromeo** · 03-18-2023, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by RevBarnes

And would you agree that for Lamar to develop into more of a conventional QB, Roman's offense had to go?

No, I guess not. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by more of conventional of a QB?

I don't think Lamar needs to play in a different offense to master his ability as passer.
I certainly don't think passing volume is a barometer of anything more then style of play.
Only Lamar can control how well he executes the rhythm-timing dropback passing game.
Only Lamar can control whether or not he plays with consistent and disciplined fundamentals.
Lamar played great football in the exact same offense that people now seem to hate.
Lamar led the league in TDs passes, was one of the top pocket passers, tops in the RZ, tops vs the pressure/blitz, and was one of the top pocket passers in the league and was top 5 in pure passing EPA.
I think the "problem" if there even is one, is more about not having better WRs then the scheme.

**purple_city39** · 03-18-2023, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

None of them made the money he is asking for.

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Not a fair argument since all of their 2nd contracts came over 20 years ago. Daniel Jones just got a higher per year average than any of thise players, not because he's better but because the money paid now is far higher than back then. 20 years from now, players will receive far more than Lamar is even asking for.

We do know Ed Reed was once the highest paid safety in history. Ray Lewis the highest paid LB in history. Peyton the 2nd highest paid player, only behind Vick, then became the highest paid in history on his next contract

The money they received, in their time, at their position, is comparable.

**RevBarnes** · 03-18-2023, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by edromeo

No, I guess not. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by more of conventional of a QB?

I don't think Lamar needs to play in a different offense to master his ability as passer.
I certainly don't think passing volume is a barometer of anything more then style of play.
Only Lamar can control how well he executes the rhythm-timing dropback passing game.
Only Lamar can control whether or not he plays with consistent and disciplined fundamentals.
Lamar played great football in the exact same offense that people now seem to hate.
Lamar led the league in TDs passes, was one of the top pocket passers, tops in the RZ, tops vs the pressure/blitz, and was one of the top pocket passers in the league and was top 5 in pure passing EPA.
I think the "problem" if there even is one, is more about not having better WRs then the scheme.

I think...

The heavy emphasis on running, Roman's offense, and the RPO (or whatever it is called)

Led to the use of personnel groupings that did not favor volume passing and this...

Made the offense undesirable to the better wide receivers

I also "wonder" if using Lamar so often as a runner, and the fact he can be so dynamic, made developing disciplined fundamentals more difficult, because he might be thinking about more options than the typical traditional QB. If I am right then Lamar's fundamentals might take off when he slows down a little bit more. He does have a lot of good qualities, other than running. He may just be like a pitcher who has more pitches than he can easily master at one time.

**blah3** · 03-18-2023, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

This is the crux of the issue here. Deep down, everyone knows how much Lamar carries the offense. But with that reality, comes leverage. We're not going to find another QB who can come close to carrying this same offense the way Lamar did and posters on both sides of this debate know that. But some don't want to admit it, because they know Lamar is likely gone.

Why is lamar likely gone? The ravens hsve been very consistent they want him.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 03-18-2023, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

Why is lamar likely gone? The ravens hsve been very consistent they want him.

Lamar isn’t going anywhere. We are pretty much past the point where a team would be able to put an offer together that we would have issues matching due to the cap. He’s also not getting any gtd offers or even interest like he’s been expecting.

Ravens also aren’t going to just let him go either if he decides to fuss about wanting out at a theoretical later date.

We will see Lamar in a Ravens Uni in August.