Why do we believe in Mike Macdonald ?

[Rxdoxx]

My memory of Pees was watching a team drive down the field in the late 4thQ knowing they had to be stopped, and nothing different being thrown at them to mess them up. Vanilla nail-biting all the way. “Organized Chaos “ at least had some underlying excitement/interest. Not saying Pees was bad, am saying he was no fun to watch.

Mac remains to be experienced. Expect him to be good. No idea the number of times he will throw a curveball, and we are not going to know before things get real. We can only guess, and hope it is fun to watch, but we will begin that experience in September

[RavensFanMania]

I believe we will use more zone coverages under Macdonald and the reason he will be better than Wink is he will use players to their strengths, like he did at Michigan, instead of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, which Wink did on numerous occasions.

[DeltaRaven]

This is just my hunch but I wouldn’t be surprised if Harbaugh prefers the style of Dean Pees over the way Wink likes to his defenses play, especially in coverage. He has become more aggressive in certain ways due to analytics, but his coaching roots are from some very old school, conservative systems

I can see bend but don’t break being a compliment to the offense he’s been installing since Lamar got here. Holding teams to field goals in a duel of long methodical drives should play to our advantage.

[jonboy79]

Not for a moment.

Macdonald helped out as a local HS coach while he was in college at Georgia, then stayed for a few seasons as a grad asst / quality control asst at Georgia when Mark Richt was head coach. From then on all his time was in Balto (intern, defensive asst, DB coach, LB coach) until his semester abroad at Michigan.

This is part of what I meant when I said Macdonald is a palimpsest that fans are projecting things onto. You thought he had experience under Saban; Shas thought he had experience under Belichick.


Yeah: that's what I was trying to refer to when I said it's tough to write the post without sounding like I think Macdonald is gonna suck. I don't think he's gonna suck. He's a talented young coach; deeply experienced with the Ravens way of doing things; and Harbs has worked hard to keep him in the family / not let him get away. Signs point to him being capable.

But why do fans have all these grand ideas about him? It's weird, the way (many) fans seem to think Macdonald is the Next Great Thing in defensive coaching. Where does that come from?

There was a lot of skepticism when Wink was promoted; a fair amount when Pagano ("Who??") was promoted; I don't remember about Pees. The contrast is weird.

This board seems to be generally young and they see what people like McVay are doing and convinced themselves that the game has passed the boomers by and it’s an entirely different pass happy game and all knowledge from before 2018 or so is worthless.


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[pslholder96]

We believe in Macdonald because we stopped believing in Wink hence our belief has to go elsewhere. Macdonald is young so the hope is that he's innovative and creative. Wink gave us some good years but his ways had run it's course.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I'm confident in him because I watched him turn around that UM defense and have 3 guys that made huge significant jumps as soon as he walked in the door...Hutch was a fringe first rounder before he got his hands on him, nobody had heard of Ojabo and Hill was thought of as a mid/late day 2 guy.

Of course this isn't college, but watching a guy truly put guys in those positions to improve both as a team and individually says a lot.

We'll see...I'd like to see more of an in between type of defense from Pees (conservative) to Wink (ultra aggressive).

I think you have one guy in Wink who I will always wonder how we had guys here who never truly blossomed at our biggest position of need on defense go elsewhere and start getting into the DPOY discussion at various points in the season. I'd like to see guys get developed at one spot and master it instead of this versatility/scheme beating you because there is no scheme out there that can't be beaten by great players.

[Shas]

Yeah: that's what I was trying to refer to when I said it's tough to write the post without sounding like I think Macdonald is gonna suck. I don't think he's gonna suck. He's a talented young coach; deeply experienced with the Ravens way of doing things; and Harbs has worked hard to keep him in the family / not let him get away. Signs point to him being capable.

But why do fans have all these grand ideas about him? It's weird, the way (many) fans seem to think Macdonald is the Next Great Thing in defensive coaching. Where does that come from?

There was a lot of skepticism when Wink was promoted; a fair amount when Pagano ("Who??") was promoted; I don't remember about Pees. The contrast is weird.

Okay, I see your point but I guess I have not seen the irrational exuberance amongst the fanbase that you are picking up on. I've seen what I think is justified optimism. So when you created this thread to question if we're all delusional, it does come across as you must be feeling very pessimistic.

In other words, it's a matter of degree. I'm at an 8 out of 10 on the move, giving him room to beat that expectation, but understanding that it could go worse. I'm hearing you say fans are at a 12 out 10 on Macdonald and that's not justified. If that's your point, I guess I can say that's fair. But I still see bringing him in over Wink as a plus move and am still optimistic.

[edromeo]

This defense has talent.
This organization is smart.
I liked Wink’s defense for the most part…and areas where Wink’s defense was weak are likely areas Mac was given the mandate to address.
Mac is young and with youth often comes innovation and I like that too.

Tangent…also really like that they brought in another QB coach. Very underrated/under discussed off-season move.

[WNCRavensFan]

The best answer I can give to this question is: I have yet to see a reason not to believe in Mike Macdonald.

[GOTA]

Ravens fans are cautiously optimistic just like they are every offseason.

[simplesimon]

McDonald did the impossible. He led the defense that got Jim Harbaugh his first win ever against Ohio State. Plus he is younger and physically fit.

[JimZipCode]

I'd like to see more of an in between type of defense from Pees (conservative) to Wink (ultra aggressive).

Funny: I thought Wink was a great compromise between Pees (conservative) and Rexy/Pagano (ultra aggressive). Wink liked to manufacture pressure, but he was more sound behind it than Rex & Chuck.

I think you have one guy in Wink who I will always wonder how we had guys here who never truly blossomed at our biggest position of need on defense go elsewhere and start getting into the DPOY discussion at various points in the season.

I'm not sure who that refers to.

Wink had Zadarius for one season as DC, before Z went off to the Pack. Z and Judon platooned at one OLB spot, and had 8.5 & 7 sacks respectively. Suggs played at the other spot, and had 7 sacks in his final season as a Raven.

It's a shame we couldn't hold on to Z. He & Judon would have formed a wicked pass-rush duo. As it was, Judon made the Pro Bowl three times under Wink. Had 9.5 sacks one year; it's not like his numbers with the Pats blew away his numbers in Balto.

The one I do question is Yannick in 2020. What went wrong there? Seemed like he should've been the missing ingredient. Instead he got 3 sacks in 9 games, and seemed a half-step slow. What was that all about? It didn't look like usage: I remember him rushing the passer (and not quite getting there), not dropping into coverage or anything.

But I still see bringing him in over Wink as a plus...

Even that I don't understand.

I think Wink was the best DC of the Harbaugh era. But if that's too much, let's say the Harbs DCs rank like this:

1. Rexy
2. Wink
3. Pags
4. Pees
5. Pops (Mattison)

That's probably about right, yeah? I could see people arguing to swap Pees & Pags, esp as Pees won the SB and Pags was DC for only one season. But for sake of discussion, that's probably pretty close to right, yeah?

It seems to me there's only about a 35% change that Macdonald will be as good as Wink. I don't see any evidence at all for assuming he'll be better.

I'm pretty sure the Ravens defense will be better than it was last season. Add Marcus Williams and Kyle Hamilton; that's a clear upgrade at safety. Get Marlon & Marcus & Derek Wolfe & Daelin Hayes (and Iman Marshall and Ar'Darius Washington) back from injury. Add Travis Jones and Jalyn Armour-Davis (and Damarion Williams) and (hopefully) David Ojabo. Get year 2 development from Odafe Oweh and Brandon Stephens. That should be a vastly improved unit. No matter who is coordinating it.