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  1. #361
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    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Tyler Linderbaum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rygar64 View Post
    They could develop into a really nice George and Lenny tandem. Tyler using his smarts to get Cleveland in the right positions and then playing off of that to either double the right guy or go hunt for someone else.
    Rygar for the "Of Mice and Men" (Steinbeck) reference... Bc





  2. #362
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    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Tyler Linderbaum!

    Quote Originally Posted by New ! View Post
    I understand your point of view and again, I don’t have a problem with the player as much as what we gave up to get him. I don’t know how much difference there is in wins added between a top 5 center and a 10-15th best center. If he ends up as an elite center it justifies the pick. If he ends up being merely solid I think people will be wishing we used that pick elsewhere.
    That is assuming we could have got an elite player at another position? The draft is literally a crap shoot. There are no gaurentees on drafting solid players let alone elite players, especially at the back of the 1st Rd.





  3. #363

    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Tyler Linderbaum!

    Lol George and Lenny 🤣





  4. #364

    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Tyler Linderbaum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rygar64 View Post
    They could develop into a really nice George and Lenny tandem. Tyler using his smarts to get Cleveland in the right positions and then playing off of that to either double the right guy or go hunt for someone else.
    Yes. imagine when Cleveland's contract comes up for renewal and DeCosta won't pay them both.

    "Tell me about the contract, Tyler."





  5. #365

    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Tyler Linderbaum!

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    That is assuming we could have got an elite player at another position? The draft is literally a crap shoot. There are no gaurentees on drafting solid players let alone elite players, especially at the back of the 1st Rd.
    Well the beauty of revisiting the pick in 2/3 years time is that you can cherry pick the guy we should have drafted and if Linderbaum becomes a ProBowler nobody is going to come back to this thread to point out your doubts.

    And of course that works for every player they've drafted, ever.
    It ain't pretty, but it's us.
    AND I'M HERE FOR IT ALL, BABY.

    We were getting healthier...





  6. #366

    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Tyler Linderbaum!

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    That is assuming we could have got an elite player at another position? The draft is literally a crap shoot. There are no gaurentees on drafting solid players let alone elite players, especially at the back of the 1st Rd.
    At pick 25 I think itÂ’s fairly safe to assume that there are still some very good prospects available at most, if not all the positions. I donÂ’t buy the idea that there wasnÂ’t another player taken in the next 10 or so picks that they liked, even if Linderbaum was number one on their board at 25. I think if that were the case they wouldnÂ’t have traded down with Buffalo. It took them much longer to get the pick in than they did at 14 and I got the sense that they wanted to move down again.

    If you go back and look at our best centers from past years you have Birk, Jensen, and Bozeman all drafted in Round 6, Jason Brown and Jeff Mitchell in Round 4, Matt Skura and Mike Flynn were undraftedÂ…this years All-Pro centers were drafted at 63 (Humphrey), 161 (Linsley), and 191 (Kelce). I donÂ’t see Linderbaum outperforming those guys enough to justify the huge disparity in draft capital, Especially when you consider that he will have to adjust his technique in order to compensate for the lack of length that he mostly was able to get away with in college. His performance could be pretty up and down in the beginning, like most rookies. ItÂ’s probably unfair to him, but heÂ’s going to have to be better than what we had last year right out of the gate. You can get a developmental center on Day 3 of the draft, or even as a UDFA.





  7. #367
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    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Tyler Linderbaum!

    Quote Originally Posted by New ! View Post
    At pick 25 I think itÂ’s fairly safe to assume that there are still some very good prospects available at most, if not all the positions. I donÂ’t buy the idea that there wasnÂ’t another player taken in the next 10 or so picks that they liked, even if Linderbaum was number one on their board at 25. I think if that were the case they wouldnÂ’t have traded down with Buffalo. It took them much longer to get the pick in than they did at 14 and I got the sense that they wanted to move down again.

    If you go back and look at our best centers from past years you have Birk, Jensen, and Bozeman all drafted in Round 6, Jason Brown and Jeff Mitchell in Round 4, Matt Skura and Mike Flynn were undraftedÂ…this years All-Pro centers were drafted at 63 (Humphrey), 161 (Linsley), and 191 (Kelce). I donÂ’t see Linderbaum outperforming those guys enough to justify the huge disparity in draft capital, Especially when you consider that he will have to adjust his technique in order to compensate for the lack of length that he mostly was able to get away with in college. His performance could be pretty up and down in the beginning, like most rookies. ItÂ’s probably unfair to him, but heÂ’s going to have to be better than what we had last year right out of the gate. You can get a developmental center on Day 3 of the draft, or even as a UDFA.
    And there were plenty of all pro centers drafted in the first 2 rounds. Travis Federick, Ragnow, and the Pouncey brothers ("under sized" centers btw). It doesn't matter where you draft pro bowlers. Linderbaum was clearly the Ravens best player on the board and a very likely day 1 starter. I'm not so sure someone like Penning is a day 1 starter.





  8. #368
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    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Tyler Linderbaum!

    Rodney Hudson was also picked at 33 by KC in the 2011 draft and was undersized. He is still a top 10 C in the league today.





  9. #369

    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Tyler Linderbaum!

    Looks like Linda Baum gets her first crack at my NY Jets. Looking forward to watching... I'll be there at the game.

    "I’m just very happy Linda Baum has taken hold as the nickname.
    If I ever meet him I plan to call him that right to his bitch face.
    Then in case he tries to take a cheap shot at me I’ll just stand 31.25” away and will be totally safe. "
    2022 Mock Draft spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    "I can't take any more disappointment."
    -Carl"

    "So the Jets killed Carl..... and a little bit of the Knicks too. "
    -Larry David





  10. #370
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    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Tyler Linderbaum!

    Quote Originally Posted by New ! View Post
    It's probably unfair to him[Linderbaum], but he's going to have to be better than what we had last year right out of the gate.
    That is not a high bar, whatsoever.

    I think we underestimate just how much the C position has been a non-strength of the OL, the past few years. Skura was replacement level or just above; Bozeman not far north of that. The Ravens playoff losses in 2018 and '19 were directly attributable to weakness at iOL, and in '20 Lamar was knocked out of the game (concussion) off of an awful snap.

    The Ravens haven't had an above-average center since Ryan Jensen left after the 2017 season. This during a period when DL have only gotten more athletic & dynamic; and as we've run an offense that maximizes the contributions of O-linemen. And we're probably a team that benefits from having an excellent center more than most teams would (variety & complexity of rushing attack).


    Quote Originally Posted by New ! View Post
    You can get a developmental center on Day 3 of the draft, or even as a UDFA.
    With respect: why the fuck would we want that? I badly wanted Creed Humphrey last year (but loved Bateman); Cesar Ruiz the year before that. A plug-&-play guy, ready to go at a high level.


    Quote Originally Posted by New ! View Post
    If you go back and look at our best centers from past years you have Birk, Jensen, and Bozeman all drafted in Round 6, Jason Brown and Jeff Mitchell in Round 4, Matt Skura and Mike Flynn were undrafted…
    Is that a listing of ALL the Ravens Centers? It's certainly not a list just of the "best centers".


    Quote Originally Posted by New ! View Post
    I don't see Linderbaum outperforming those guys enough to justify the huge disparity in draft capital
    Yeah. In terms of draft capital think there's two separate questions about the pick:

    1. Whether a Center can ever be worth the 25th overall pick;
    2. Whether Tyler Linderbaum is a legitimate NFL Center #1


    For #1 – If you look at the history of some recent Pro Bowl centers, think the answer must be obviously, unquestionably yes. Here are some guys from the last five Pro Bowls:

    • Alex Mack went 21st overall (7 Pro Bowls, HOF all-decade team)
    • Ryan Kelly went 18th overall (3 Pro Bowls)
    • Frank Ragnow went 20th overall (1 Pro Bowl; 2nd-team All-Pro that same year)
    • Maurkice Pouncey went 18th overall (2x All-Pro, 9 total Pro Bowls, HOF all-decade team
    • Travis Frederick went 31st overall (All-Pro once, 2x 2nd-team All-Pro, 5 total Pro Bowls)
    • Mike Pouncey went 15th overall (4 Pro Bowls)

    I don't know what the analytics of positional value say: but it seems that the going rate for Center prospects who are perceived to be Pro Bowl -caliber guys, is a mid-first-round pick. So the market has spoken.

    NB, Linderbaum was the same weight at the Combine as the younger Pouncey. As Bozeman, too.

    By the way, I think it is an okay value proposition for a team to spend a draft premium on a position that they have had trouble filling adequately. For example, the Ravens from to 1998 to 2007 had trouble getting even average play from the QB position; so to my mind it was reasonable for them to spend extra draft capital to move up and take Flacco. Would have been worth a greater expenditure. Likewise, the Ravens don't exactly have the Steelers record at developing 2nd- & 3rd-rd WRs, so I think it would make sense for them to spend a 1st-rd pick on a guy even if it is a slight overpay.

    At the other end of the spectrum, over their history the Ravens have been able to get quality play from ILBs they find find lying around. So that's not a position where they'd "need" to spend a premium. (Not that I ever complain about taking BPA.)

    The Center position is in the middle. They've had good success with low-draft-capital Centers over their history; but poor results recently. A premium could be justified or not. I could believe that Greg Roman's offense would justify a premium, if someone wanted to make that argument. And DeCosta claims Linderbaum was BPA, so there's that.


    For #2 – Fuck if I know. I have to trust Joe D'Allesandris and Greg Roman and Eric DeCosta, that they know a good Center when they see one. DeCosta says Linderbaum is their highest-rated Center prospect over the last ten years. I lean strongly toward trusting them.

    But the arm length does concern me, not gonna lie.





  11. #371
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    Welcome to Baltimore Tyler Linderbaum!

    Jim- What is your opinion of Cam Jurgens, the Center that the Eagles drafted in the second round?

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/e...newest-center/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Dirt1; 05-14-2022 at 12:27 PM.
    “When the sea was calm, all ships alike showed mastership in floating.”- William Shakespeare





  12. #372

    Re: Welcome to Baltimore Tyler Linderbaum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Forgettable1 View Post
    Yes. imagine when Cleveland's contract comes up for renewal and DeCosta won't pay them both.

    "Tell me about the contract, Tyler."
    lmaooooooo





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