The A-11 Offense

**psuasskicker** · 05-14-2008, 11:03 PM

I'm not sure if I posted this here earlier or not...I don't think I did.

The A-11 Offense

Thought this was a very interesting, innovative idea. Never a bad thing to bring some innovation to a game. Sounds like they've had some serious inquiries about this formation. I could completely see someone like Martz or Belichick giving something like this a shot some time. And frankly, it'd be interesting to see it run by a team that has a very mobile QB option (or two).

This seems like it'd be a lot of fun to watch executed - and subsequently schemed for and defended by - professionals...

- C -

**Ravens0587** · 05-14-2008, 11:44 PM

I don't think it would work in the NFL b/c (granted im basing everything on small clips that I saw) the athletes on defense are so much better. Plus look at how vick was going to revolutionize the QB position yet teams with good defenses i.e. Ravens, Buccaneers, Panthers gave vick fits.

**RavenScallywag** · 05-15-2008, 06:25 AM

yeah, you can almost forget using that formation for passing. you have at most 4 blockers (3 OL, 1 QB/RB) and most pass rushes will easily break through that to get to the QB. So no standing in the pocket to throw to one of your receivers.

Basically all it's good for to me is handing off or option plays for a run, since you'll have at least 3 blockers split far to either side and can probably have one or two midle players pulling for blocks. For the same reason no NFL team runs an option offense, that is why you wouldn't see this in the NFL

**psuasskicker** · 05-15-2008, 09:24 AM

Not true at all. The beauty of this formation is that it's all about deception. There are 8 players that are eligible receivers, and any one of them can go anywhere on the field. All you need to be able to at least have a shot at running this effectively is a QB that can release the ball quickly.

The defense doesn't know which QB will be getting the ball (if two are lined up).

The QB can throw to a spot on the field. Adjust based on defensive coverage. You have to have WRs that know what they're looking for, so in certain D sets, everyone knows where the ball is going.

On D, you can't line up heavy over the middle because it leaves the edges completely exposed. Get five rushers up the middle, and somewhere along the edges there'll be a hole, so as soon as the ball is snapped, it's in the air. Perfect example of this would be a crossing route, where it's snapped, you have five rushers, and the R or E receiver streaks 10 yards up the middle of the field. Suddenly he's behind the entire middle of the defense, and it's 15 - 20 yards before he's stopped. Leave a guy back to defend, and you can have a hat-on-hat blocker if needed.

On top of all that, it's a completely different personel assignment, and one that's never been seen before. Highly likely it can catch someone off-guard, potentially at a critical moment of the game.

I don't think this would be as easy to defend as you guys make it out to be.

- C -

**jonboy79** · 05-15-2008, 11:15 AM

I don't think this would work in the slightest. Not at all. There is NO blockign for either passign or running. In the NFL the QB's would get murdered. Teams would line up 4 DE's 3 safeties and 4 corners. Play a cover 3 backline, with 4 corners covering underneath and the pass rushers getting home EVERY time. I'm not even sure it would be effective in college, though I'm sure it would work in HS, where one good player can simply outrun an entire team.

**RavenScallywag** · 05-15-2008, 11:49 AM

for an occassional trick play, it might work, since you could come out in a normal looking formation, then split everyone all funky and make the snap before the other team can call a TO or substitute.

But, there's still a couple issues...If you see 2 QBs coming out, they'll know something is up. Only way you could confuse them is if you bring out a QB that could double as a RB/WR.

And I still agree with jonboy. The footage on the website for it showed probably about a 3 step drop before the DL was in the face of the QB. Most of the plays were one QB faking like he got the ball and dropping back to throw while 2nd QB actually got the snap and starts running behind the 3 WR split out. For throwing, you'd need to have WRs that are IMMEDIATLEY looking for the ball. Even if you have a QB that can get rid of the ball quick, they almost need to start throwing as they get the snap. If the other team rushes 4 DL, your "2nd QB" would need to pick one of them up, otherwise they're coming in unblocked and again, you're looking at about 3 steps, maybe 4, before the DL is in the QB's grill. And that's not even counting if they rush a LB or a DB.

**jonboy79** · 05-15-2008, 12:32 PM

Absolutely one of the "QB's" would have to bea Reggie McNeal, Michael Robinson type BIG RB/WR that can also throw. Any formation that does not include 5 legitimate OL will never work.

**psuasskicker** · 05-15-2008, 04:27 PM

You guys need to open the mind a little bit. Of course the only way this works is with the receivers immediately looking for the ball. You think you can simply rush 4 DEs and cover 8 potential receivers underneath with 7 DBs when you don't even know who's going out? Cover up short and someone's gonna be free behind them, cover deep and the short route's open with a shot at making a man miss. Sh*t, you could line Rivers and Tomlinson up deep behind center. Tomlinson can throw the ball if he wants. Or snap it to Rivers, LDT takes three steps to the right and forward around the pass rush, Rivers plops it over the DE's heads and suddenly you've got a screen pass with six blockers on one side of the field only having to block DBs.

Naturally this never works in the pros as a standard formation. It's a gimmick play to be used a half dozen times per season or less. But to automatically rule it out as completely ineffective takes a lack of imagination.

Eight guys who all know their assignments and where they're gonna run on the field, with an awareness of who's going to get the ball based on the look the defense gives them. You guys seriously think a team of professionals have no hope of pulling something like that off?

- C -

**jonboy79** · 05-15-2008, 05:59 PM

You consider the average wide receiver to be a valuable blocker, I think that is where we differ.

I think the oop-de-oop from Friday Night Lights is a more viable formation... yeah I said it.

**festivus** · 05-15-2008, 06:04 PM

Looks awesome, PSU. And NFL offenses are overdue for some kind of 'something different.' I mean, when you think about it, the biggest innovation in the past thirty years might be the Trips formation, which you see once every blue moon. Thanks Joe Gibbs!

One day I hope we will see something new.

I'm inclined to agree with the others, this isn't it. If an offense comes out lined up this way, I *think* the defense can be confident there is no slow-developing passing play in the offing, and attack accordingly. Fill the gaps with a pass rush. The potential QB's are not that far apart, just follow the ball. . .

My :2c: . I am glad to take a look at it, for sure.

**jonboy79** · 05-15-2008, 06:14 PM

I'll take a page from this playbook, and turn it into somehtign I think could work.

Standard OL, empty backfield. 2 TE's "near" the line to the right, with a RB parallel to the QB, behind them. 2 WR's lined up Left. I think this would have special value with players like Portis and Tomlinson that have passing ability where they could throw it BACK to the RB who could have the potential to dump it off to a TE that peels off a block, but mostly it would bea jailbreak screen formation with the ability to check off to a couple of Wideouts left. .

**festivus** · 05-15-2008, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

I'll take a page from this playbook, and turn it into somehtign I think could work.

Standard OL, empty backfield. 2 TE's "near" the line to the right, with a RB parallel to the QB, behind them. 2 WR's lined up Left. I think this would have special value with players like Portis and Tomlinson that have passing ability where they could throw it BACK to the RB who could have the potential to dump it off to a TE that peels off a block, but mostly it would bea jailbreak screen formation with the ability to check off to a couple of Wideouts left. .

Jonboy, are you talking about a shotgun formation, with the RB to the strong side of the QB (a few feet away), and 2 TE's next to each other on the right with 2 WR's on the left? Just trying to picture it.