Josh Allen

[QtR Nevermore]

Forcing him to be a mostly pocket passer from the beginning forgoes that opportunity. Perhaps it's worth the cost to do so, but perhaps not. We can only be sure it's worth the cost of forgoing a 2019 season if:
- he's capable of becoming an elite pocket passer
- he will only get there by not emphasizing his unique talents as a rusher

Personally I'm not sure of either.

I know this isn't your intention, but "forcing Lamar to be a pocket passer" is a bit of a strawman. Not even Roman's biggest critics are seriously calling for that.

There are a lot of QBs who aren't strictly pocket passers - Murray, Allen, Herbert and even Burrow use their mobility to make space and time much more than the Brady Brees school of QBs. I think everyone would still want Lamar to use his legs significantly more than any of them.

2019 is not coming back, so I don't see the point in trying to chase it for another season. The NFL has adjusted to Roman's offense with a star at QB and Roman still hasn't found the adjustment to counter that. He's been running the same stuff for a decade. Are we just going to assume lightening will strike him this offseason in the form of a new idea?

The Rams ran through the league in 2018 on the back of a scheme no-one figured out until very late in the season, but when Belichick duplicated Fangio's approach and shut the Rams down in the SuperBowl, McVay tried to find adjustments for the next season. He didn't just roll it back and cross his fingers, or blame a lack of talent on the O line.

[Kyle Cactus]

I know this isn't your intention, but "forcing Lamar to be a pocket passer" is a bit of a strawman. Not even Roman's biggest critics are seriously calling for that.

There are a lot of QBs who aren't strictly pocket passers - Murray, Allen, Herbert and even Burrow use their mobility to make space and time much more than the Brady Brees school of QBs. I think everyone would still want Lamar to use his legs significantly more than any of them.

2019 is not coming back, so I don't see the point in trying to chase it for another season. The NFL has adjusted to Roman's offense with a star at QB and Roman still hasn't found the adjustment to counter that. He's been running the same stuff for a decade. Are we just going to assume lightening will strike him this offseason in the form of a new idea?

The Rams ran through the league in 2018 on the back of a scheme no-one figured out until very late in the season, but when Belichick duplicated Fangio's approach and shut the Rams down in the SuperBowl, McVay tried to find adjustments for the next season. He didn't just roll it back and cross his fingers, or blame a lack of talent on the O line.

That's fair. "Forcing Lamar to be a pocket passer" was overstating it. But as I said, it's a matter of degrees. The more we take away the read option runs, the less successful that 2019 offense would've been. IMO it was a shot worth taking.

But I do agree that we need to evolve. The RO runs no longer consistently buy us the 7 yard gain where Jackson steps out of bounds at the end and takes no hit. Something new has to drive the offense. To be fair I think we're trying, but when Stanley, Dobbins, and Edwards all basically miss the whole season there's only so much you can do.

[kronusthebonus]

For me, it's not just about draft capital. It's a philosophical commitment. As an organization, you have to decide that you will build the team philosophy around your QB's arm. There is not a single high quality, multiple time All-Pro, Hall of Fame 'passer', in modern time, who has not had that commitment made to their growth as a passer.

It goes beyond draft picks and stats. The stats for 2019 look great, but it's clear that the stats were largely influenced by the massive spaces created by the dominance of the run. Not that the passing offense could be that deadly on its own or being the catalyst.

The Ravens have shown a commitment to build the entire team philosophy around Lamar's legs, not his passing. There's a difference. Here, the run comes first and Lamar's legs are treated with just as much, if not more importance than his arm, and then the passing offense follows. In Buffalo, Allen's arm is #1 and then everything else follows. When he does run, it's often after the passing offense's quality and threat has created space and running lanes.

Gonna have to disagree here. I think the Ravens have made a commitment to building the team around Lamar's strengths. They're evolving. I would have loved to see what we would have been able to do in a 2019 style RPO-based offense with JK and Gus. They had to adapt with the loss of those guys. I still have hope we can become that feared offense of 2019, but to say we haven't built a philosophy around Lamar's strengths is just not accurate.

[QtR Nevermore]

He worked his butt off with Jordan Palmer, we've been over this. https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills...bd03a4df4.html

and they STILL run QB power despite guys on this board that tell me they don't. Critical 3rd down conversions

I'm probably the guy who says they don't, even though I didn't say exactly that. What I said, and still stand by, is that the Bills barely use Allen in the designed run game, except in the biggest games, even though their offense is at its best when they do.

They understand that it's an amazing weapon to have but there are a finite number of times they'll be able to use it, so they save it for must wins rather than just every single time they need to keep a series alive. That also has the advantage of keeping it from being predictable, so that Allen isn't running into a defense that's waiting for the play and waiting to hit him.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Gonna have to disagree here. I think the Ravens have made a commitment to building the team around Lamar's strengths. They're evolving. I would have loved to see what we would have been able to do in a 2019 style RPO-based offense with JK and Gus. They had to adapt with the loss of those guys. I still have hope we can become that feared offense of 2019, but to say we haven't built a philosophy around Lamar's strengths is just not accurate.

Just a nitpick...RPO does not equal Zone Read. The offense was built on the Zone Read run (the run plays where it's a run, it's just a decision whether to handoff to the RB or Lamar run himself, not Run Pass Option plays (where the QB has an option to throw the ball instead of handing off to the RB).

[kronusthebonus]

Just a nitpick...RPO does not equal Zone Read. The offense was built on the Zone Read run (the run plays where it's a run, it's just a decision whether to handoff to the RB or Lamar run himself, not Run Pass Option plays (where the QB has an option to throw the ball instead of handing off to the RB).

Fair enough, I'm not offended to have my nit's picked. You understand the point I was trying to convey.

I still feel that Josh Allen and Lamar are going to be in the conversation for the best QBs of that draft for at least next decade. I hope I'm right.

[BcRaven]

Josh Allen was the 7th pick in the 2018 draft, so he was expected to excel with training and experience. He has certainly done that, with hats off to the Bills for choosing him. The Ravens have won Super Bowls with Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco, not as well regarded QBs, so what is the OP expecting from LJ8? IMO he's done well, but this 2021 season has been a fluke with so many injuries and COVID protocols. I still have confidence in our management/coaching and want to see many eat crow when the Ravens win our 3rd championship... Bc

[Goode05]

Allen was always better then Jackson. It just took Buffalo a while to fill in the supporting cast. Allen steps up in big games were Jackson crumbles. Not to mention the monster brewing in Cincy. You think the playoffs were to big for Burrow? But let’s throw 40 million at Jackson and hope he improves as a passer in year 5…… I mean all qbs improve in year 5 don’t they? Actually go look at every running qb and look how quickly their ststs fall in year 5 6 7. The body especially a smaller body like Jackson can only take so many hits. At this point 5th year option him tag him and draft another running qb. If you do give him a deal structure it like Kapernicks deal where it’s real easy to get out of once the beatings catch up. (He’s already losing a step)

[Mmcclend]

Allen was always better then Jackson. It just took Buffalo a while to fill in the supporting cast. Allen steps up in big games were Jackson crumbles. Not to mention the monster brewing in Cincy. You think the playoffs were to big for Burrow? But let’s throw 40 million at Jackson and hope he improves as a passer in year 5…… I mean all qbs improve in year 5 don’t they? Actually go look at every running qb and look how quickly their ststs fall in year 5 6 7. The body especially a smaller body like Jackson can only take so many hits. At this point 5th year option him tag him and draft another running qb. If you do give him a deal structure it like Kapernicks deal where it’s real easy to get out of once the beatings catch up. (He’s already losing a step)

He’s back!!!!! Wassup Goode? How was the Broncos forum? Jk, good to have you back bro.

[kronusthebonus]

Allen was always better then Jackson. It just took Buffalo a while to fill in the supporting cast. Allen steps up in big games were Jackson crumbles. Not to mention the monster brewing in Cincy. You think the playoffs were to big for Burrow? But let’s throw 40 million at Jackson and hope he improves as a passer in year 5…… I mean all qbs improve in year 5 don’t they? Actually go look at every running qb and look how quickly their ststs fall in year 5 6 7. The body especially a smaller body like Jackson can only take so many hits. At this point 5th year option him tag him and draft another running qb. If you do give him a deal structure it like Kapernicks deal where it’s real easy to get out of once the beatings catch up. (He’s already losing a step)

Yeah, definitely crumbles in big games.. Like vs. KC this year, where he led a comeback victory while completing almost 70% of his passes for 240 yards and a TD, while running for 107 yards and 2 more TDs. What a loser, 347 yards and 3 TDs.

or against Indy where he also led a huge comeback victory down by 17 points while completing 86% of his passes for 442 yards (no Raven has ever passed for over 400 btw) and throwing 4 TDs, adding an extra 62 yards on the ground. What a bum!

GTFOH

[Jazz1988]

You can give Lamar Jerry Rice and Calvin Johnson and he’d still be a terrible passer.

Calling Lamar Jackson a terrible passer is major cap

[Culex]

Allen was always better then Jackson. It just took Buffalo a while to fill in the supporting cast. Allen steps up in big games were Jackson crumbles. Not to mention the monster brewing in Cincy. You think the playoffs were to big for Burrow? But let’s throw 40 million at Jackson and hope he improves as a passer in year 5…… I mean all qbs improve in year 5 don’t they? Actually go look at every running qb and look how quickly their ststs fall in year 5 6 7. The body especially a smaller body like Jackson can only take so many hits. At this point 5th year option him tag him and draft another running qb. If you do give him a deal structure it like Kapernicks deal where it’s real easy to get out of once the beatings catch up. (He’s already losing a step)

Welcome back.

But as usual, we disagree. Only partially, though.

Lamar has yet to truly take over a playoff game but I don't think you can cut ties on a guy that's only 25, won MVP, and keeps getting you to big games especially considering what this team looked like without him (not pretty). You have to take a chance on the guy you drafted especially considering what are your alternatives here? We pick 14th overall and that's the highest you might ever see us at and that's not enough for a franchise QB.. plus this upcoming QB draft class is weak. Getting him a stellar OL and letting him operate with that is the best approach. Keep him on his feet and healthy while building the defense. Lots of draft picks upcoming.