The Fall of The Ravens Empire

[John Morris]

Harbaugh won the big game with majority of a Roster he was not responsible for building.

(Lewis, Reed, Yanda, Ogden, Suggs, Ngata, CMAC, ) all those guys were on the roster the day he walked into the job.

To truthfully grade Harbaugh it should be from 2013-Now. He did not start winning again a lot until Lamar.

You mean the same guys that went 5 - 11 the year prior to him arriving ? ....................and we should grade him only from 2013 so as to fit your narrative because you don't like him ? Let's ignore he went 11 - 5 and advanced to the Conference Championship as a rookie head coach with a rookie QB in 2008. We'll also ignore his making the postseason in 9 of his 14 seasons while also winning a Super Bowl. While we're at it, let's ignore his 148 - 96 (.609) coaching record which is the 14th highest winning percentage all time and 11 - 8 (.579) post season coaching record. Yeah, you're right, ignoring all that I'm convinced, he sucks. LOL

[DonNMass]

By the time 2018 rolled around, I had went from being a die-hard fan to one that watched Ravens games with detached bemusement. Prior to 2019 I hadn't been to a game for 3 years. Given how this offseason is likely to play out (with no real changes) I find myself heading back down that road again.

We’ve agreed a lot over the years Terpsfan. Criticizing Harbaugh has led to a lot of ridicule on this board but I just don’t accept the vague nebulous term “culture” it’s an empty platitude. I said many times he was worth investing OJT, but his game day decisions hasn’t improved one damn bit since 2008. I just can’t get excited knowing the HC is a liability on game day.

[DonNMass]

Completely different moment. Apples and oranges. And Harbaugh is not the same he was in 2017 either. He is older and wiser.

As for the 2013-2017 time frame, the post is reasonably correct. The 2018 and 2019 seasons changed everything.

Honest question. Wiser as examples by what? He allowed Lamar to play like Lamar. I give him that. He’s a liability when the clock starts.

[Greg]

This whole article feels like the equivalent of spoiled rich kid whining about how he only got a BMW 4 series coupe instead of the Z4 Roadster.
Seriously, I get this organization is far far from perfect but lets get real here, we are a damn lucky fan base if we are being honest.
Yea we have not been the BEST organization in the NFL the past 5-7 years but we have certainly been in the top 20% when you look at the complete body of work. A trophy would be nice for sure. Since one is given out a year, that cannot be the only measure a sensible organization and/or fan bases uses to judge a teams success.
There are legit points made in this article that are used to support a conclusion that is just not true.

A Lombardi every 32 years would be AVERAGE. We are a spoiled fan base that thinks one every 5 years or so is about right.

But I do like the pressure to be on the team to do so.

[StalkRavenMad]

Harbaugh won the big game with majority of a Roster he was not responsible for building.

(Lewis, Reed, Yanda, Ogden, Suggs, Ngata, CMAC, ) all those guys were on the roster the day he walked into the job.

To truthfully grade Harbaugh it should be from 2013-Now. He did not start winning again a lot until Lamar.

And all of those guys got the previous coach fired

[Forgettable1]

And all of those guys got the previous coach fired

The guys on the roster who got Billick fired were Kyle Boller and Steve McNair.
The guy not on the roster who got Biilick fired was Joe Flacco.

The weekend (week) of the 2003 draft, Phil Savage was asked why the Ravens traded their 2004 first round pick for Kyler Boller. His answer: they looked ahead to the QBs likely available and thought they were no better than Boller, so they might as well jumpstart the QB development now.

Eli Manning won 2 SBs.
Phillip Rivers retired last year.
Big Ben just beat us to knock us out of the playoffs.

{Laughing} Billick might STILL be the coach if team retained Jeff Blake or rolled the dice on Anthony Wright, while waiting a year for Ben.

[Forgettable1]

The big difference between the post-SB mediocre years with high-salary Flacco, and the threatened mediocre years with high-salary Lamar, is that Lamar will have weapons.

He'll succeed. The team might not. But he, Bateman, Andrews, Brown and Player To Be Determined will.

That success on offense will camouflage the team's mediocre record. It will be ice cream, it will be the Sour Patch Kid that's sweetness we look forward to at 1:00 p.m. but that we promise to forever swear off at 4:00 p.m. when it turns sour.

[Terpsfan82]

We’ve agreed a lot over the years Terpsfan. Criticizing Harbaugh has led to a lot of ridicule on this board but I just don’t accept the vague nebulous term “culture” it’s an empty platitude. I said many times he was worth investing OJT, but his game day decisions hasn’t improved one damn bit since 2008. I just can’t get excited knowing the HC is a liability on game day.

I call them Harbologists, lol. He's a good coach, but he's got his blind spots. I don't like him. This isn't college. However, the Ravens value his emphasis on "culture" and I don't see that changing as long as Bisciotti is here.

[StalkRavenMad]

The guys on the roster who got Billick fired were Kyle Boller and Steve McNair.
The guy not on the roster who got Biilick fired was Joe Flacco.

The weekend (week) of the 2003 draft, Phil Savage was asked why the Ravens traded their 2004 first round pick for Kyler Boller. His answer: they looked ahead to the QBs likely available and thought they were no better than Boller, so they might as well jumpstart the QB development now.

Eli Manning won 2 SBs.
Phillip Rivers retired last year.
Big Ben just beat us to knock us out of the playoffs.

{Laughing} Billick might STILL be the coach if team retained Jeff Blake or rolled the dice on Anthony Wright, while waiting a year for Ben.

But everybody was clamoring for the FO to get rid of Flacco

[Shas]

Give Flacco credit. He bet on himself, rolled the dice and performed under pressure. The Super Bowl MVP cashed in, taking advantage of an organization intoxicated by its second Lombardi Trophy and the thought of a long-time franchise quarterback....The victory, for all intents and purposes, enabled Harbaugh to shape the team the way he wanted. Alpha males that dominated and led the Ravens locker room moved on.

I didn't click the link because I didn't get past the first two points made in this tired narrative, which wasn't true then, and isn't true now.

First, there is a suggestion that winning it all clouded their judgement when it comes to Flacco. I am willing to bet the same author criticized the team for letting Dilfer go after the team won their first Lombardi (Hi, Tony!).

Fans would have KILLED them if they let Flacco walk (and no everybody didn't want Flacco gone after the SuperBowl victory. That is revisionist history) So what's the point of bringing it up? Flacco never lived up to the contract, I get it, but that doesn't make the decision wrong.

Second, the whole theory that Harbaugh was out to strip the team of Alpha Males is a bunch of Mike Preston horseshit hoisted on gullible fans.

Pollard was let go because he collected more penalties than tackles.

Ed Reed was out of gas, and proved it. Ask me and they waited a year too long to address it. They could have kept their first pick in 2012 and drafted Harrison Smith as his eventual replacement, avoiding the disastrous Elam pick the following year (Zach Ertz went three picks later that year, imagine Smith drafted to step in at safety, and then in '13 Ertz drafted replacing Ed Dickson at TE). And then there's all that money they had to spend on the likes of Jefferson, Weddle and Thomas that could have been avoided if Harrison Smith had been drafted in 2012.

Ray Lewis retired a year later. How is that a case of Harbaugh shedding Alpha males?

Boldin was mostly a money decision, which is what happens to Super Bowl winners who have to sign QBs to huge contracts. I'm willing to bet that Harbaugh would have liked to had Boldin back...and his decision making had nothing to do with Reed and Lewis simply reaching the end of their useful careers.

[TL24x7]

First, there is a suggestion that winning it all clouded their judgement when it comes to Flacco. I am willing to bet the same author criticized the team for letting Dilfer go after the team won their first Lombardi (Hi, Tony!).

Chalk that up to a lost bet! You are 100% wrong!

Alpha males that dominated and led the Ravens locker room moved on. Ray Lewis retired. Ed Reed wasn’t re-signed. Anquan Boldin was traded. Bernard Pollard was released. Nearly overnight, the swagger that once defined the Baltimore Ravens had vanished.

Never said that Harbaugh stripped the team of alpha males. I said they moved on. Please don't put words in my mouth to fit your narrative. (Hi Steve!)

Fans would have KILLED them if they let Flacco walk (and no everybody didn't want Flacco gone after the SuperBowl victory. That is revisionist history) So what's the point of bringing it up? Flacco never lived up to the contract, I get it, but that doesn't make the decision wrong.

There's that narrative again, rearing its ugly head. Didn't say that either.

Maybe reading the entire article might have helped.

But you do you. Have a great day.

[lobachevsky]

I'm more interested in The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire at the moment.

ZINGGGGG!