OT: Antonio Brown has always been this way

[Desert Raven]

It was reported He said bunch of Racist crap to Mike Mayock the Raiders GM infront of players and coaches. Thus why they got rid of his sorry ass. There is not media lies here.

Go google the videos of him he himself record saying a bunch of racist shit towards one of his baby mammas and the police. Go check out his twitter. The lawsuits.

This guy is a world class piece of shit and sooner or later will probably see in the inside of a prison cell. He already has assault and domestic violence charges.

He thinks he can say and treat people how ever he wants. He is a terrible person. His character is as bad as they come. Plenty of proof. I have watched the videos and seen his twitter.

So by this metric you must feel even more strongly about Ray Lewis’ character, or does he get a pass? I don’t care if he’s a jerk, he probably is. Lots of people are jerks it doesn’t make them bad people or scum of the earth though. If you knew him personally he might even be cool to you. You never know.

[The Excellector]

I don't deny that he has to take accountability for his treatment.

It's similar to someone with a debilitating heart condition whose doctors tell to take meds and lose weight. That person is accountable for his part in his treatment. But I'm not going to belittle him if he falters with his self care.

My Neanderthal reference relates to Bradshaw's comments about hauling Brown away in a straightjacket. I was equating it to some previous comments from some posters, which I considered to be insensitive and wrong.

I apologize if, in the past discussions, I appeared insensitive or arrogant regarding your own experiences, or the experiences of others, with brain trauma or mental health. Perhaps I'm guilty of a "yeah, but" type response, so that's on me.

But I suspect where we went wrong is making it a black-and-white issue. (I believe my point that the people around him back then were enabling him rather than helping him take accountability for the situation, but let's not rehash all that).

The point is, I never meant to imply that people should not be held accountable for their own mental health care. What I did mean to imply is that personal failure is not grounds for us ridiculing the guy, and toss him aside. It was the ridicule that caused me to bristle.

I'd argue that we should hold him accountable for his failings while at the same time show him some compassion for his situation. I don't think these are mutually exclusive positions.

We don't know if he even has mental health issues (previous debates centered around whether this is true or if he is just an asshole), but since we don't know one way or the other we have to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that's what is at the heart of all this bizarre behavior, going back to his college behaviors, as you point out. That was a prior argument I made, and still believe.

And again, I think we can give him this benefit of the doubt, and the compassion that should come with it, without denying your point that he needs to be accountable for his part in overcoming it.

Regarding CTE, I'd rather just set that aside. It's an unknown on top of an unknown. While head trauma COULD be at play here, it really doesn't matter to me whether that's the cause or some other mental health issue is behind this; it doesn't change any of the above-comments for me.

Can we agree, or am I still missing the point as you see it?

You’ve always been clear and I do want to state that while Captain and I went ROAR, it was never personal or anything. There was no belittling on your part at all and I know him well enough to say that neither of us or anyone else in the discussion took it that way.

The only real disconnect, (Because I certainly feel that your sense of empathy is important in someone’s journey to recovery), is that when you talk about ridiculing or belittling someone who may, fall off the wagon, sort of speak, we (Because Bradshaw has had his own personal journey with mental health issues himself), is that you have to get on that wagon first. And that is why guys like Bradshaw, who have been through it, are responding that way. You have to get ON the ladder first. Once a guy shows that he is willing to get ON the ladder, if he falls, then responses will likely be a bit tempered by comparison. However, in Brown’s case he gets belittled because he never got on that ladder and continues to hurt others instead of recognizing that he is the issue. I recognized that I was not myself and sought help. Captain recognized that he was not himself and sought help. Bradshaw had to go through a lot at first, but eventually recognized that it was a ‘Bradshaw’ issue and no one else. He then sought the help. Not only has Brown not done that. Not only are his actions not consistent with those who ended up developing CTE, not only has he been like this since high school, not only has he abused women, assaulted security, threatened people, nearly killed a child, and is frankly a blatant racist, but he still thinks that everyone else is the problem, after any number of teammates have publicly admitted that they tried everything, to talk to him, reason with him and get him to seek help.

It’s not that we don’t want him to get the help (Irregardless of our opinion of what his issues may be), but we just have little patience for those who make the choice (And it is a clear choice because you know somethings wrong and you’re not yourself) to shun the help.

[Shas]

You’ve always been clear and I do want to state that while Captain and I went ROAR, it was never personal or anything. There was no belittling on your part at all and I know him well enough to say that neither of us or anyone else in the discussion took it that way.

The only real disconnect, (Because I certainly feel that your sense of empathy is important in someone’s journey to recovery), is that when you talk about ridiculing or belittling someone who may, fall off the wagon, sort of speak, we (Because Bradshaw has had his own personal journey with mental health issues himself), is that you have to get on that wagon first. And that is why guys like Bradshaw, who have been through it, are responding that way. You have to get ON the ladder first. Once a guy shows that he is willing to get ON the ladder, if he falls, then responses will likely be a bit tempered by comparison. However, in Brown’s case he gets belittled because he never got on that ladder and continues to hurt others instead of recognizing that he is the issue. I recognized that I was not myself and sought help. Captain recognized that he was not himself and sought help. Bradshaw had to go through a lot at first, but eventually recognized that it was a ‘Bradshaw’ issue and no one else. He then sought the help. Not only has Brown not done that. Not only are his actions not consistent with those who ended up developing CTE, not only has he been like this since high school, not only has he abused women, assaulted security, threatened people, nearly killed a child, and is frankly a blatant racist, but he still thinks that everyone else is the problem, after any number of teammates have publicly admitted that they tried everything, to talk to him, reason with him and get him to seek help.

It’s not that we don’t want him to get the help (Irregardless of our opinion of what his issues may be), but we just have little patience for those who make the choice (And it is a clear choice because you know somethings wrong and you’re not yourself) to shun the help.

Thanks for the clarification.

My impression was that after the court ordered him to get help that he was actually adhering to it and had made progress, to the point of connecting with Brady and creating a more stable environment for himself. And that, until this week (where I'd say he fell off the ladder), he was doing his part. Which is why I'm more sympathetic to his fuck up than others are, perhaps.

But I'm in no way close to the guy and maybe my impression of him having made progress before this week is wrong.

[00000]

I wonder how long AB would've lasted if he signed with the Ravens? Lol 1.5 games?

[burnwood]

So by this metric you must feel even more strongly about Ray Lewis’ character, or does he get a pass? I don’t care if he’s a jerk, he probably is. Lots of people are jerks it doesn’t make them bad people or scum of the earth though. If you knew him personally he might even be cool to you. You never know.

I'm open to generating a rap sheet for Ray Lewis then we can deconflict with Antonio Brown's. Here is AB's:

For those of you unfamiliar with the NFL, /r/NFL has been keeping track of this guy's antics. This is the list:

•Kicked out of Florida International University after fighting a security guard

•⁠"Don't touch me. I'm the franchise"

• ⁠His second year in the league he took a personal stretch limo to a charity event, had them open every single expensive bottle of wine, rejected it. Refused to pay for it (charity, remember), then left. -credit Nduguu77

• ⁠Threw fits over not getting enough targets

• ⁠Drove 100 down McKnight Road in Pittsburgh, which has a 45 MPH speed limit

• ⁠Trashed a condo and threw furniture out a window 14th floor window, which almost hit some people, notably a child

• ⁠Killed a home aquarium full of piranhas and refused to pay the man who installed the tank

• ⁠Refused to play week 17 for the Steelers

• ⁠Dyed his mustache blonde

• ⁠Refused to pay a chef because he thought he threatened him by placing a fish head in the freezer (the fish head was saved to make a soup)

• ⁠Farted on a doctor

• ⁠Demanded a trade from the Steelers

• ⁠Became "Mr. Big Chest"

• ⁠Threw a fit over Juju winning team MVP and trashed him on social media

• ⁠(Allegedly) nixed a trade that would've sent him to the Bills

• ⁠Showed up to Raiders training camp in a hot air balloon

• ⁠Held out and refused to show up to training camp because the NFL would not approve his helmet because it was too old for their safety standards

• ⁠Froze his feet

• ⁠Tried to paint over his old helmet, hoping no one would notice I guess

• ⁠Acquired a newer version of the same model of helmet, which the NFL refused to let him use

• ⁠Picked out a new helmet and finally showed up to the Raiders

• ⁠Got fined by the Raiders for not attending camp

• ⁠Tweeted the fines

• ⁠Tried to fight Mike Mayock, called him a cracker, had to be held back by Vontaze Burfict, then punted a football down the practice field and said "fine me for that"

• ⁠Got fined for that

• ⁠Released a video where he used audio of Jon Gruden, who didn't know he was being recorded, which is illegal in California (full disclosure, Gruden has said he gave permission, but the generally accepted theory is that he said that in the hope that it would help get him to show up to the facility and not alienate him)

• ⁠Demanded a release from the Raiders

• ⁠Was released

• ⁠"GRANDMA I’M FREEEEEE! FLY LIKE A FREEEEE!"

• ⁠Made a lot of crazy tweets saying stuff like 'Devil is a lie', a proverb about burning down a village... he made a lot of crazy tweets around this time is the point here

• ⁠Liked a tweet about Mayock getting raped in the ass

• ⁠Signed with the Patriots

• ⁠Moved in with Tom Brady

• ⁠The sexual assault allegations came out (the one where he's getting sued)

• ⁠The sexual harassment allegations came out (the one where he's not getting sued)

• ⁠Threatened the woman not suing him in a group text that included his lawyer and had a picture of her kids in the text

• ⁠Got released by the Patriots after one week

• ⁠Went off on a tweet storm and said a lot of crazy shit about a lot of people, and was supportive of people sending threats to the writer of the article detailing the sexual harassment allegations

• ⁠Said he was done with the NFL

• ⁠Went back to college via online classes

• ⁠Tried to outsource his homework to Twitter

• ⁠Wants to come back to the NFL

• ⁠Filed several grievances to try and get more than $40 million from the Raider's and Patriots

• ⁠Was ordered to show up for a deposition regarding trashing the condo

• ⁠Was accused of "reprehensible behavior" during the deposition Note: I cut the specifics about the deposition so I could fit this as a single comment. You can read more about it here if you're interested, because it, like everything else, is nuts

• ⁠Said that the Patriots have to pay him anyway, so they might as well let him play

• ⁠Tweeted a couple of bizarre tweets about the Raiders using him for HBO ratings and the Patriots trying to steal his stuff and kept using this weird chicken based metaphor

• ⁠Tried out for the Saints and brought an entourage and film crew to shoot a music video with him when specifically told not to do that

• ⁠Called out Robert Kraft for his rub and tug massage session in Florida

• ⁠Starting training for a boxing match with Logan Paul

• ⁠Tweeted "No more white woman 2020"

• ⁠The attorney representing him in the suit involving the condo quit

• ⁠Used a bunch of slurs and profane language towards cops in an Instagram video he posted

• ⁠A police youth football league cut ties with him and returned a donation after the release of the video saying there was a "irreparable rift" between the department and AB

• ⁠Threw a bag of gummy candy dicks at the cops in a video he posted

• ⁠Got dropped by his agent

• ⁠Was involved in a disputed with movers at his home where he allegedly threw rocks at the movers and moving vans. He is currently being investigated for battery by the police.

• ⁠His trainer was arrested and he is still a suspect in the battery case.

• ⁠Warrant issued for the arrest of AB.

• ⁠AB turns himself in to Broward Country Jail wearing this suit

• ⁠Rumors spread about AB signing with Tampa or Seattle

• ⁠AB announces his retirement (for what I believe is the third time, it's hard to find a good record of the rest of them)

• ⁠Two days later AB wants to play again and is asking for the league to wrap up it's investigation

• ⁠The NFL announces an eight game suspension for AB

• ⁠AB signs with the Buccaneers on a one-year deal

• ⁠Before he signed with the Buccaneers AB was accused of destroying a surveillance camera at a Florida gated community, throwing bike at a security-guard shack, and is not charged because HOA president "feared" retaliation, per police report

• ⁠AB is under investigation by the NFL for the bike throwing incident

• ⁠Allegedly acquired fake covid-19 card

• confirmed to have acquired a fake covid-19 card and subsequently suspended for three games

• Removed jersey and pads and threw them in the stands before exiting the games verse the Jets.

[Desert Raven]

I'm open to generating a rap sheet for Ray Lewis then we can deconflict with Antonio Brown's. Here is AB's:

Dyed his mustache blonde?…..Wow, real menace to society. They should have locked him up and thrown away the key for that.

[s.r.genovese]

There are plenty of assholes who do the same crap that AB does who have never picked up a football or taken a blow to the head in their life. There are thousands who have problems with authority, don’t respect other humans, ultimately treat people like shit, and throw tantrums when things don’t go their way. As his own stepdad has said, he has been this way since he was 12 years old.

On the other hand it is very rare for someone who has never played football or taken a blow to the head to have the cognitive issues that a guy like Junior Seau had - don’t forget not only was he depressed but he had significant memory issues, outright dementia, short term memory loss, and was an insomniac. That is nothing like what AB is going through or has gone through.

Does that mean he doesn’t have mental problems? Of course not. He clearly does. The jump to blame everything on CTE and blows to the head whenever an NFL player has an outburst is odd, especially considering the type of personality you have just to be an NFL player in the first place (i.e., incredibly intense, driven, aggressive, and ultimately self centered).

[Drain Bamage]

The NFL has allowed more dangerous people to keep going. The on field stuff is relatively harmless. Does kicking him out of the NFL make him less of a hazard to others? I doubt it.

[The Excellector]

I'm open to generating a rap sheet for Ray Lewis then we can deconflict with Antonio Brown's. Here is AB's:

You call this a list? How could you completely miss the tardiness to team meetings and practices while at Central Michigan?! Not to mention the tantrums at Central Michigan, such as the one where he wiped out his coach's desk in a tirade?

Tisk tisk.

[The Excellector]

There are plenty of assholes who do the same crap that AB does who have never picked up a football or taken a blow to the head in their life. There are thousands who have problems with authority, don’t respect other humans, ultimately treat people like shit, and throw tantrums when things don’t go their way. As his own stepdad has said, he has been this way since he was 12 years old.

On the other hand it is very rare for someone who has never played football to have the cognitive issues that a guy like Junior Seau had - don’t forget not only was he depressed but he had significant memory issues, outright dementia, short term memory loss, and was an insomniac. That is nothing like what AB is going through or has gone through.

Does that mean he doesn’t have mental problems? Of course not. He clearly does. The jump to blame everything on CTE and blows to the head whenever an NFL player has an outburst is odd, especially considering the type of personality you have just to be an NFL player in the first place (i.e., incredibly intended, driven, aggressive, and ultimately self centered).

That's the same thing I said. When you look at the players who were found to have CTE, there are common themes in the diminishment of their cognitive abilities. I, for example, have Moderate TBI. Moderate and Severe can also be precursors to CTE, even if there is not repeated trauma. That's the sort of stuff I deal with, what you mentioned with Seau. Just not on that scale yet. One certainly wouldn't be willing to produce high quality music videos and manage multiple business ventures at one time like Brown is. More like, you'd start feeling like you need a caretaker, just to help you keep up with day to day chores and routines.

[The Excellector]

Thanks for the clarification.

My impression was that after the court ordered him to get help that he was actually adhering to it and had made progress, to the point of connecting with Brady and creating a more stable environment for himself. And that, until this week (where I'd say he fell off the ladder), he was doing his part. Which is why I'm more sympathetic to his fuck up than others are, perhaps.

But I'm in no way close to the guy and maybe my impression of him having made progress before this week is wrong.

I got love for you Shaslers. Always have. Always will. From Sunspot to Russellstreet.

[Shas]

I got love for you Shaslers. Always have. Always will. From Sunspot to Russellstreet.

We're all good, Sword :)