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  1. #49
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    Re: CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

    Until natural immunity is at least granted equal status to vaccination this is nothing but a scam to put money in big pharma's pockets . . . AT BEST.





  2. #50

    Re: CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bynight View Post
    You bring up good points. So as far as Trump goes I hate Trump with a passion because I believe he caused a massive rift and divisiveness in this country - worse than it ever was. I don't want to debate that point with anyone as it's my personal belief and nothing will change that, anymore than someone hating Obama as president. That said, I believe the single most effective thing Trump did and I give him huge kudos for this was Operation Warp speed. Mind you this came from a president who told the country Covid would blow over shortly after the first cases appeared and refused to wear masks, thus prompting Trump accolytes to state masks were worthless and therefore not wear them. Again, not going to debate mask effectiveness. However, Ranger, feel free to ask your wife, a physician, about her beliefs about masks and post back.

    As much as I hated taking a vaccine I took it because I thought it was the right thing to do. You state Covid is becoming less of a threat. Again, how to explain the far increase in amount of deaths. The flu season is not year round, Covid is. I myself have invested in vaccine stocks and reaped a financial windfall. It was pretty obvious a once in a century pandemic was going to make a killing for the first companies to produce approved vaccines. I did not need to be a congressman to invest - I bought shitloads of options as an individual investor and have made over 300k on my vaccine investments. Yes, I made posts about that to this forum before the vaccines were even approved and implored people to buy. If you look at my history I told this forum 3 weeks ago to buy BNTX stock when it was well under $300 a share - just see where it is sitting today....
    Wow! You really think Trump caused the massive rift in this country? The MSM has you right where they want you.





  3. #51
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    Re: CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    So do you have something to point out in the data that is flawed in some way? It looked pretty decent yo me.
    You dont like CDC data, so I thought canada data is a decent compromise. Plus itís a whole lot easier to get a decent summation of data from canada.
    No data is better than bad data.

    I don't trust any government on this. Especially with the things were seeing around the world with this.

    I just thought it was funny to see someone who is historically untrusting of government(s) but has used them a lot recently to back up what you believe.
    "I support anyone's right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?" óDave Chappelle





  4. #52

    Re: CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    I also agree but the last time that wildly misinterpreted Jacobson ruling was used Roe V. Wade and medical privacy wasnt a thing. Thatís a ruling that cuts both ways. But letís not get into the weeds on that one, letís talk about what really matters here. I think everyone whoís been paying attention knows one immutable fact, that the largest predictor of positive versus negative outcomes is not vaccines, itís not mask wearing, itís none of that. Itís obesity. So I find it a little hard to get on board with making good decisions for the public health, when we donít address obesity in this country. Obesity not only has worse outcomes for Covid, but literally everything else in life that is bad that can happen to you that is not an acute injury, can almost always be linked back to obesity. So I really donít feel like getting lectured by a bunch of people who donít bother taking care of themselves. I also donít buy the letís do this for society narrative, because if society really gave a damn about public health outcomes obesity wouldnít be a thing.

    Now that all being said, I have nothing against obese people. I often have the urge to just walk into a sandwich shop and get the biggest Philly cheesesteak sandwich theyíve got, but I try to reserve that for a few times a year. That being said it is absolutely their choice to eat or not eat, and to live their life however they see fit just so long as it doesnít impose upon anyone else. So I really feel like the inconsistency in which the Jacobson ruling is applied, and that societal good Trumps the right of the individual to be blatantly false, especially in the last 30 or 40 years.

    And that really doesnít even get into the philosophical debate of what does the individual society? I understand how people would think public good trumps that of the individual, but Iíve always thought this country was founded in based upon the principles of individual liberties. Itís also not so much with this country was based on, but I think any free society on planet earth has to prioritize the right of the individual over that of the collective. This is for a whole Lotta reasons, but weíd be getting into the weeds and diverting the conversation. I will leave it at this though, doing good for society doesnít really hold any water as an argument till we start addressing obesity with the same vigor we do Covid, and what do any of us really owe society? If weíre being honest if something happened to your kid and he was laid up on a ventilator, you had to watch the preacher give him his last rites, society going to come to the funeral? Are they going to foot the bill? Are they going to send a sympathy card? Of course theyíre not, societies just this large grenade that we throw out in arguments so that way we can satisfy trampling the rights of the individual in my opinion.

    Also really quickly, employers can do what they choose. I see no reason why the government should be able to infringe upon the rights of business owners and how they choose to run their companies. If you as a business owner choose to make vaccination mandatory for employment, then there should be absolutely no excuses on why people would not be vaccinated in your place of work, unless they were already employed. Even then, if you tell them a new condition of employment is vaccination and they choose to go than that youíre right as a business owner.
    The issue with the obesity argument is that obesity impacts the lone individual (will not get into health care costs and how obesity impacts that nationally). Suffice to say, if Haystacks Calhoun is sitting next to me at the lunch counter, he does not impact my health one bit. However, if Haystacks Calhoun is smoking a cigarette next to me then I get second hand smoke and it does impact my health. Hence why indoor smoking is banned in restaurants and buildings. I use the same logic with Covid. Haystacks is sitting next to me unvaccinated and with Covid - that may indeed impact my health because I have underlying cancer and vaccines are not a panacea for everything.





  5. #53

    Re: CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

    Quote Originally Posted by TIGERBLOOD View Post
    The comment was about not trusting government data period and you insulted NCRAVEN comparing him to a flat earther.

    You tried claiming earlier that you were a moderate. That's what cravens do that want people to think they don't have a bias. Nearly every take you have on things is far left.

    If you're a moderate I'm the Queen of England.


    Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk
    Then you better get used to knighting people, queenie. Does someone far left believe in the death penalty? If someone rapes and kills a little girl, I believe that person should be getting a lethal injection, bullet, or drawn and quartered as soon as possible after being found guilty with immutable evidence. Does that sound far left? I believe Israel should be allowed to rain down holy hell on the Pals if they get rocket attacks...is that your definition of far left? I can keep going....

    As far as NC being a flat earther - well your orange lord loves the uneducated.





  6. #54

    Re: CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Nope, Trump didn't cause it, he was simply the catalyst for the Deep State to go full on nuts that they might lose control.
    There was already a major rift with how Republicans hated Obama. Trump widened that rift on the Democratic side, along with ostracizing Republicans that disagreed with him.





  7. #55

    Re: CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    No data is better than bad data.

    I don't trust any government on this. Especially with the things were seeing around the world with this.

    I just thought it was funny to see someone who is historically untrusting of government(s) but has used them a lot recently to back up what you believe.
    That tinfoil hat is growing larger and larger. It's not just the US - you don't trust any gov't on earth. Good heavens man, exactly how tightly wrapped are you on conspiracy theories?





  8. #56

    Re: CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    Wow! You really think Trump caused the massive rift in this country? The MSM has you right where they want you.
    He did not cause it. He just widened what was there to an incredible degree.





  9. #57

    Re: CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

    Quote Originally Posted by TIGERBLOOD View Post
    The comment was about not trusting government data period and you insulted NCRAVEN comparing him to a flat earther.

    Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk
    Let's take a look at your past posts. You called me a fucking prick for me simply stating my views here long before I had laid an insult on you or anyone. Now you clutch your pearls and profess to be upset because I called someone a flat earther who first called me ignorant. Yea right, you are just Miss Innocent here along with other name callers...





  10. #58
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    Sep 2009
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    Re: CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bynight View Post
    That tinfoil hat is growing larger and larger. It's not just the US - you don't trust any gov't on earth. Good heavens man, exactly how tightly wrapped are you on conspiracy theories?
    You must not have ever taken a history lesson if you trust government.
    "I support anyone's right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?" óDave Chappelle





  11. #59

    Re: CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bynight View Post
    The issue with the obesity argument is that obesity impacts the lone individual (will not get into health care costs and how obesity impacts that nationally). Suffice to say, if Haystacks Calhoun is sitting next to me at the lunch counter, he does not impact my health one bit. However, if Haystacks Calhoun is smoking a cigarette next to me then I get second hand smoke and it does impact my health. Hence why indoor smoking is banned in restaurants and buildings. I use the same logic with Covid. Haystacks is sitting next to me unvaccinated and with Covid - that may indeed impact my health because I have underlying cancer and vaccines are not a panacea for everything.
    I would say thatís a fair argument. However, I will add a couple of things to this. I think it absolutely affects you, even regardless of healthcare costs. If people with very strong immune systemĎs, and in general weíre healthy, I feel like herd immunity wouldíve been reached already. I feel like people who are in general healthy, and have strong immune systems, are generally speaking the asymptomatic cases. Now I realize it sounds more dangerous because they didnít know they were sick, however, that leads me to believe that coupled with the fact that natural immunity is better than a vaccine, if a healthy person can kick this in two days, I would be more than happy with no mandates whatsoever considering the timeframe and the immunity gained from healthy people getting sick. The problem we have is that obese people get these things, and they keep continuing to have them for longer than necessary because their immune system canít fight them off as quickly.

    Think about it as a window of opportunity. If you as a general healthy person, or me myself as a general healthy person when I get Covid and kick in two days that means that two days of exposure is really all we have to be worried about, now I understand that thereís incubation periods, and periods after which you can still get sick but letís just say a nice round number of two or three days. If youíre healthy and your immune system kicks it in three days, now you have immunity better than that of a vaccine which will protect you for longer, and your window of exposure was only three days. Now letís take somebody who is obese in that same situation in their window of time is 7 to 10 days, because their immune system is having a hard time fighting it off. Now theyíve doubled to tripled the amount of time in which they can get someone sick. I think that is worth mentioning. And I also think that the narrative that obesity only affects that sole person is incorrect.

    Now Iíd really like to reiterate that Iím talking from a strictly medical perspective, I have nothing against big people, and I wish them well, and I have friends who are big so itís not like Iím somebody who is disgusted by fat people. Thatís really not what it is, but Iím strictly speaking on the medical side of things that obesity is probably the biggest problem we have when it comes to Covid. I would also like to state that Iím not against the vaccine in principle. If people feel like they need a vaccine, then they should absolutely get one and there should be zero stigma or chiding of people who get it. I donít think people who get the vaccine are stupid, or theyíre lemmings, or theyíre scared. Now of course there is a certain portion of the population, and other people who get it for political reasons, but I truly believe that a lot of people want to get it just to be safe. And thatís absolutely an intelligent decision.

    There are countries that are starting to ban it for people who are under 30 and healthy, because the complications from the vaccine is of a greater risk to them than Covid itself. I think thatís very interesting and some thing we should be looking at when weíre talking about vaccination mandates. If you as a business owner give somebody under the age 30 the choice to get a vaccine, or now they have to watch their family be put in the bread lines, and that person dies from the side effects of the vaccine, make no mistake the blood is on your hands. That is something business owners are grappling with at the moment, and thatís why I think leaving it up to a personal choice is the only morally responsible thing to do.

    I also understand that people will make the opposing argument the vaccines are the only morally responsible thing to do, which thatís a fine position to take, however you lose the moral high ground when you mandate them, at least in my opinion. So when you couple all of these things together, and then you add the coup de grace of them not releasing The data in which they base their approval on for the next 55 years.You seem like a reasonably intelligent fella, so I know you understand how that looks suspicious to say the very least. If good science is what got testing approved the why would you not let people see it? Whatís in the vaccine is already protected by some sort of patent law im assuming, so you really wouldnít have to worry about people not getting your money in that regard, so there just seems to be something that theyíre hiding, and itís really hard to make an informed decision when you donít have the information wouldnít you agree?
    Last edited by Ranger; 11-30-2021 at 12:08 PM.





  12. #60

    Re: CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    You must not have ever taken a history lesson if you trust government.
    I trust data from multiple sources. If most governments on earth are releasing their Covid data and you don't like it because the data does not support your viewpoint - well, nothing I say can correct that.





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