CORONAVIRUSCOVID Death Toll Under Biden Set to Surpass Trump, In Less Time

[Ranger]

I really think the most effective treatment is vaccines - but this debate will not be solved until history looks back at this time period 10 or 20 years from now.

And this right here is the crux of most debate. A vaccine is only as trustworthy as those administering it. Why are we not allowing people those 10 or 20 years to decide if it’s right for them. That is the general stupidity of the flu vaccine comparison. People say we can mandate flu shots, thus we can mandate this. Well you can try, but understand, there is a century of data on one and BARELY a year on the other, it’s a stupid comparison and logical fallacy.

[blah3]

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the time we've been on this board together, you've been very untrusting of government(s). Is that fair to say?

So do you have something to point out in the data that is flawed in some way? It looked pretty decent yo me.
You dont like CDC data, so I thought canada data is a decent compromise. Plus it’s a whole lot easier to get a decent summation of data from canada.

[blah3]

And this right here is the crux of most debate. A vaccine is only as trustworthy as those administering it. Why are we not allowing people those 10 or 20 years to decide if it’s right for them. That is the general stupidity of the flu vaccine comparison. People say we can mandate flu shots, thus we can mandate this. Well you can try, but understand, there is a century of data on one and BARELY a year on the other, it’s a stupid comparison and logical fallacy.

Mandates i think are not good. However, they cam be mandated in certain instances. Companies can mandate vaccine as a requirement of working there. Schools can mandate that kids have to be vaccinated

[Ranger]

Mandates i think are not good. However, they cam be mandated in certain instances. Companies can mandate vaccine as a requirement of working there. Schools can mandate that kids have to be vaccinated

Yes and no. They can but they can’t. I have a feeling under any other administration the application of the constitution would be a bit more honest instead of them wiping their ass with it. Their is PLENTY of exemptions and reasons why you can’t mandate children to have them. Now workplaces, sure, it’s their business and they should run it how they see fit. That said if it weren’t for this current abomination of an administration a vaccine mandate would have never happened, but since they foisted it hard upon millions who didn’t want it got it. It’s ok though because I feel this fight will outlive Biden.

[TIGERBLOOD]

Just give it the fuck up. You are now trying to goad Blah into saying he does not trust gov'ts therefore he should not trust their data. Go back to your flat earth society.

There is ample evidence already of them lying about the data.

Have you bothered to read Fauci's emails?

How about that the FDA says it's gonna take 55 years to release the vaccine safety data as requested in a FOIA case?

https://www.khou.com/article/news/he...d-d3ec0a2d6616

So they can fast track its approval and tell us it's safe, but it's gonna take 55 years for them to let us see all the data that they presumably used to make their decisions.

Countries in Europe are preventing people from under 30 from getting the vaccine because their data shows its not worth the risk of heart damage, yet the CDC is plowing ahead. Don't you even question that?

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[2bynight]

There is ample evidence already of them lying about the data.

Have you bothered to read Fauci's emails?

How about that the FDA says it's gonna take 55 years to release the vaccine safety data as requested in a FOIA case?

https://www.khou.com/article/news/he...d-d3ec0a2d6616

So they can fast track its approval and tell us it's safe, but it's gonna take 55 years for them to let us see all the data that they presumably used to make their decisions.

Countries in Europe are preventing people from under 30 from getting the vaccine because their data shows its not worth the risk of heart damage, yet the CDC is plowing ahead. Don't you even question that?

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Have you bothered to read Blah's message before responding to me? It was for CANADA genius, not the US. Fauci has zip to do with Canadian medical stats.

[CarrollCoRaven]

YouTube Censors Song Exposing King Fauci As A ‘Sad Little Man’

https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/29...ad-little-man/

[2bynight]

And this right here is the crux of most debate. A vaccine is only as trustworthy as those administering it. Why are we not allowing people those 10 or 20 years to decide if it’s right for them. That is the general stupidity of the flu vaccine comparison. People say we can mandate flu shots, thus we can mandate this. Well you can try, but understand, there is a century of data on one and BARELY a year on the other, it’s a stupid comparison and logical fallacy.

This is a pandemic and no one in the world has ever seen anything like it for the last 100 years. The problem with deciding if a vaccine is right for them is that choice impacts the general health and well-being of the public. The public health parameters have always stood higher than individual rights in an emergency situation. Kids cannot go to school without being innoculated. You could not have gone to public school without your shots. I can see the counter-argument being those shots were developed over long lengths of time as opposed to the mRNA shots with rapid development and (possibly) unknown long term effects. No one here though is being forced to take the shot. It is not mandated like Germany will do. Yes, my company will force it as a matter of employment, but one can leave if they don't want it. Employment at-will in action.

[Ranger]

This is a pandemic and no one in the world has ever seen anything like it for the last 100 years. The problem with deciding if a vaccine is right for them is that choice impacts the general health and well-being of the public. The public health parameters have always stood higher than individual rights in an emergency situation. Kids cannot go to school without being innoculated. You could not have gone to public school without your shots. I can see the counter-argument being those shots were developed over long lengths of time as opposed to the mRNA shots with rapid development and (possibly) unknown long term effects. No one here though is being forced to take the shot. It is not mandated like Germany will do. Yes, my company will force it as a matter of employment, but one can leave if they don't want it. Employment at-will in action.

I also agree but the last time that wildly misinterpreted Jacobson ruling was used Roe V. Wade and medical privacy wasnt a thing. That’s a ruling that cuts both ways. But let’s not get into the weeds on that one, let’s talk about what really matters here. I think everyone who’s been paying attention knows one immutable fact, that the largest predictor of positive versus negative outcomes is not vaccines, it’s not mask wearing, it’s none of that. It’s obesity. So I find it a little hard to get on board with making good decisions for the public health, when we don’t address obesity in this country. Obesity not only has worse outcomes for Covid, but literally everything else in life that is bad that can happen to you that is not an acute injury, can almost always be linked back to obesity. So I really don’t feel like getting lectured by a bunch of people who don’t bother taking care of themselves. I also don’t buy the let’s do this for society narrative, because if society really gave a damn about public health outcomes obesity wouldn’t be a thing.

Now that all being said, I have nothing against obese people. I often have the urge to just walk into a sandwich shop and get the biggest Philly cheesesteak sandwich they’ve got, but I try to reserve that for a few times a year. That being said it is absolutely their choice to eat or not eat, and to live their life however they see fit just so long as it doesn’t impose upon anyone else. So I really feel like the inconsistency in which the Jacobson ruling is applied, and that societal good Trumps the right of the individual to be blatantly false, especially in the last 30 or 40 years.

And that really doesn’t even get into the philosophical debate of what does the individual society? I understand how people would think public good trumps that of the individual, but I’ve always thought this country was founded in based upon the principles of individual liberties. It’s also not so much with this country was based on, but I think any free society on planet earth has to prioritize the right of the individual over that of the collective. This is for a whole Lotta reasons, but we’d be getting into the weeds and diverting the conversation. I will leave it at this though, doing good for society doesn’t really hold any water as an argument till we start addressing obesity with the same vigor we do Covid, and what do any of us really owe society? If we’re being honest if something happened to your kid and he was laid up on a ventilator, you had to watch the preacher give him his last rites, society going to come to the funeral? Are they going to foot the bill? Are they going to send a sympathy card? Of course they’re not, societies just this large grenade that we throw out in arguments so that way we can satisfy trampling the rights of the individual in my opinion.

Also really quickly, employers can do what they choose. I see no reason why the government should be able to infringe upon the rights of business owners and how they choose to run their companies. If you as a business owner choose to make vaccination mandatory for employment, then there should be absolutely no excuses on why people would not be vaccinated in your place of work, unless they were already employed. Even then, if you tell them a new condition of employment is vaccination and they choose to go than that you’re right as a business owner.

[TIGERBLOOD]

Have you bothered to read Blah's message before responding to me? It was for CANADA genius, not the US. Fauci has zip to do with Canadian medical stats.

The comment was about not trusting government data period and you insulted NCRAVEN comparing him to a flat earther.

You tried claiming earlier that you were a moderate. That's what cravens do that want people to think they don't have a bias. Nearly every take you have on things is far left.

If you're a moderate I'm the Queen of England.


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[TIGERBLOOD]

This is a pandemic and no one in the world has ever seen anything like it for the last 100 years. The problem with deciding if a vaccine is right for them is that choice impacts the general health and well-being of the public. The public health parameters have always stood higher than individual rights in an emergency situation. Kids cannot go to school without being innoculated. You could not have gone to public school without your shots. I can see the counter-argument being those shots were developed over long lengths of time as opposed to the mRNA shots with rapid development and (possibly) unknown long term effects. No one here though is being forced to take the shot. It is not mandated like Germany will do. Yes, my company will force it as a matter of employment, but one can leave if they don't want it. Employment at-will in action.

Old marxist tricks. It's not a free choice if they are taking away positive options. You either get the shot or get fired and your family may be homeless. The Xiden administration is pressuring businesses to mandate the vaccine. They are pressuring schools to mandate the vaccine for children. So then what? You have to quit your job and homeschool your kids? Then you go down the losing your house and ability to care for your family.

We have never seen a pandemic like this because we have never seen such incompetence and intentional disaster from government like this before. You hated Trump because of his mean tweets. Congratulations genius, you and your ilk have damned us all now. This is why you are so angry and defensive. Deep down you know I'm right, but like many in this mass psychosis that is now our reality, your psyche can't admit it so you go through marathon sessions of mental gymnastics and insults trying to justify things.

The human immune system is 99.7% effective in preventing serious disease unless you have serious high risk factors. This is a pandemic of the obese and elderly. Over 80% of icu cases are obese. The variants are weaker, regardless of the fear mongering. The vaccines are not working correctly and the data from Europe and Israel, which is months ahead of us, clearly shows some problems. Children are not at risk from any of variants, no matter how they spin it. In two years four 5 year females have died with Covid. The flu is much more dangerous to children.


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[Greg]

You bring up good points. So as far as Trump goes I hate Trump with a passion because I believe he caused a massive rift and divisiveness in this country - worse than it ever was.

Nope, Trump didn't cause it, he was simply the catalyst for the Deep State to go full on nuts that they might lose control.