Is Harbaugh a mature Christian?

**Desert Raven** · 09-27-2021, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by KbubbaK

Giving glory to God for a football game win makes me question his Christian maturity. I am a devout Christ Follower but cringe in embarrassment when I hear such things. The implication is God chose the Ravens over the underdog Lions, which seems anathema to what Jesus preached on The Sermon on the Mount.

I think Harbaugh is just trying to show humility and not take credit but to give it to the Lord.

**Ravenswintitle** · 09-27-2021, 07:42 AM

God hates Detroit, it's in the bible

**RevBarnes** · 09-27-2021, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by KbubbaK

Giving glory to God for a football game win makes me question his Christian maturity. I am a devout Christ Follower but cringe in embarrassment when I hear such things. The implication is God chose the Ravens over the underdog Lions, which seems anathema to what Jesus preached on The Sermon on the Mount.

I don't know the maturity of his faith but it seems to be sincere. I think a better question is, "what is he trying to say and is it true?"

I myself believe that God usually doesn't care who wins a football game, at least in the way we do, and if God ever does care, that concern is likely not linked to what team has the greatest faith.

(I do wonder if Tim Tebow in 2011 was something of an exception to that "rule", not so much because of my theology, but because what I saw was "sustained improbability in the presence of obvious religious devotion". If God doesn't care who actually wins a football game, who knows if he actually uses sports to make a point, much like a sunrise.)

I also remember Ray Lewis declaring "No weapon formed against us shall prosper" (Isaiah 54:17) right as Peyton Manning passed by the camera. That was amusing.

So as for Harbaugh, I think if you are a devout Christian and people are praising you like a rock star it is appropriate to want to deflect that praise to God, both in gratitude and humility. I also know that there are Christians, Penteccostals and Calvinists, who might see God as being more involved in what happens on a football field than I do.

And as for whether this is a "sports topic" I don't know, but people talk about the Cubs being cursed and the "Curse of the Bambino", not to mention "The Immaculate Reception" all the time.

**RevBarnes** · 09-27-2021, 08:00 AM

And Christians beating Lions could be called "payback".

**signore** · 09-27-2021, 08:04 AM

Jesus wasn't a Christian- He was a Raven.

**RevBarnes** · 09-27-2021, 08:10 AM

At least he told us to watch them and discuss them.

Luke 12:24 - "Consider the ravens..."

**QtR Nevermore** · 09-27-2021, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by RevBarnes

I don't know the maturity of his faith but it seems to be sincere. I think a better question is, "what is he trying to say and is it true?"

I myself believe that God usually doesn't care who wins a football game, at least in the way we do, and if God ever does care, that concern is likely not linked to what team has the greatest faith.

(I do wonder if Tim Tebow in 2011 was something of an exception to that "rule", not so much because of my theology, but because what I saw was "sustained improbability in the presence of obvious religious devotion". If God doesn't care who actually wins a football game, who knows if he actually uses sports to make a point, much like a sunrise.)

I also remember Ray Lewis declaring "No weapon formed against us shall prosper" (Isaiah 54:17) right as Peyton Manning passed by the camera. That was amusing.

So as for Harbaugh, I think if you are a devout Christian and people are praising you like a rock star it is appropriate to want to deflect that praise to God, both in gratitude and humility. I also know that there are Christians, Penteccostals and Calvinists, who might see God as being more involved in what happens on a football field than I do.

And as for whether this is a "sports topic" I don't know, but people talk about the Cubs being cursed and the "Curse of the Bambino", not to mention "The Immaculate Reception" all the time.

Interesting response Rev.

I wonder if you'd mind answering something that's always puzzled me as a lifelong atheist about some American Christians?

I hear them saying things like "This is God's plan for me", or "God makes no mistakes" or "God put me here" referring to one of their own life choices or a random event and it seems like they are talking about predestination. Are those Christain sentiments? Do they fit with the Christian message, which always seemed to me to be about being given the information and ability to make the right choices for yourself? Or am I misunderstanding Christianity?

**QtR Nevermore** · 09-27-2021, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by RevBarnes

At least he told us to watch them and discuss them.

Luke 12:24 - "Consider the ravens..."

Did he have anything to say about shoddy tackling because it might be helpful?

**mmi16** · 09-27-2021, 08:14 AM

God was the Big Bang - now he is just watching all the Universe expand as his personal Ant Farm.

**RevBarnes** · 09-27-2021, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by QtR Nevermore

Interesting response Rev.

I wonder if you'd mind answering something that's always puzzled me as a lifelong atheist about some American Christians?

I hear them saying things like "This is God's plan for me", or "God makes no mistakes" or "God put me here" referring to one of their own life choices or a random event and it seems like they are talking about predestination. Are those Christain sentiments? Do they fit with the Christian message, which always seemed to me to be about being given the information and ability to make the right choices for yourself? Or am I misunderstanding Christianity?

Thanks for asking.

I think these are a mixture of Christian sentiments and philosophical questions and even though I really believe in God, Christ and the Scriptures, I don't have the answers.

So yeah, some Christians talk as if everything was predestined or predetermined, and an expression of God's will - I tend not to - but people can think that way even if they don't believe in God. (Think of Karma, or those atheists who will talk about the universe as if it has a rule or purpose)

And as for me, I believe that God created us and Christ redeemed us to act with agency, but sometimes God does direct us.

All of which is to say, I believe enough to be sure I am not sure about some things.

**RevBarnes** · 09-27-2021, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by QtR Nevermore

Did he have anything to say about shoddy tackling because it might be helpful?

Closest I got is something about Jacob's tacking form (Genesis 32:22-28)...Jacob-angel.jpg

**QtR Nevermore** · 09-27-2021, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by RevBarnes

Thanks for asking.

I think these are a mixture of Christian sentiments and philosophical questions and even though I really believe in God, Christ and the Scriptures, I don't have the answers.

So yeah, some Christians talk as if everything was predestined or predetermined, and an expression of God's will - I tend not to - but people can think that way even if they don't believe in God. (Think of Karma, or those atheists who will talk about the universe as if it has a rule or purpose)

And as for me, I believe that God created us and Christ redeemed us to act with agency, but sometimes God does direct us.

All of which is to say, I believe enough to be sure I am not sure about some things.

So it is a valid way to interpret Christianity? I have read the Bible because I do things like that (I've read all the major religious primary texts) and I thought it was clear and obvious that the message was as you said "that God created us and Christ redeemed us to act with agency" but I suppose that was just my interpretation and others can see it differently.