The Bigger Short. How 2008 is repeating

**NCRAVEN** · 06-28-2021, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by bandc

What??? The post is literally saying that regulations were BLOCKED. There were no regulations in place to stop these investment companies from overleveraging themselves to their hearts desire! That's literally what it says!

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Answer the question. How can something be unfettered if it's regulated?

**bandc** · 06-28-2021, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Greg

What? IF you knew a collapse and foreclosures were coming why would you buy property now at the outrageous prices of today when those prices will collapse by 10-90%?

If I didn't have a crap load of equity in my home I would try and talk my wife into selling now, sitting on the cash and rent and wait for the next collapse.

BECAUSE THEY WILL BE BAILED OUT AS ALWAYS!!!!

Wall Street ALWAYS gets bailed out when they over leverage themselves. Obama gave them EVERYTHING they wanted in 08. EVERYTHING!

Working class people don't live in this reality! When the average person anticipates that hard times are coming, we instinctively reduce risk. When these investment banks know hard times are coming they go for broke!

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**bandc** · 06-28-2021, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Answer the question. How can something be unfettered if it's regulated?

It cannot be unfettered if it's regulated, but obviously that wasn't the case in this scenario. The heads of Wall Street paid for and took political positions in order to make sure their business dealings were unfettered.

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**NCRAVEN** · 06-28-2021, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by bandc

It cannot be unfettered if it's regulated, but obviously that wasn't the case in this scenario. The heads of Wall Street paid for and took political positions in order to make sure their business dealings were unfettered.

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Exactly. So we don't have unfettered capitalism.

We have crony capitalism where the people at the top use their money to get the rules (regulations) made for them and then bailed out if it doesn't work out.

Your socialist utopia solution of more regulation will just lead to more of what we already have, sorry to disappoint.

**bandc** · 06-28-2021, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Exactly. So we don't have unfettered capitalism.

We have crony capitalism where the people at the top use their money to get the rules (regulations) made for them and then bailed out if it doesn't work out.

Your socialist utopia solution of more regulation will just lead to more of what we already have, sorry to disappoint.

In this particular instance, they didn't ask for rules to be bent to towards themselves. They made it so that there were no rules at all. A free for all. May the best man win.

Is that not the libertarian/conservative ideal? Is that not free market capitalism at its core?

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**Greg** · 06-28-2021, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by bandc

BECAUSE THEY WILL BE BAILED OUT AS ALWAYS!!!!

Wall Street ALWAYS gets bailed out when they over leverage themselves. Obama gave them EVERYTHING they wanted in 08. EVERYTHING!

Working class people don't live in this reality! When the average person anticipates that hard times are coming, we instinctively reduce risk. When these investment banks know hard times are coming they go for broke!

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Still doesn't make sense.

If they KNOW a collapse is coming they wouldn't buy property, they would sell and short.

If they know it's a possibility but is is also possible things will keep going up then they would invest with the idea that government has their back. And I don't disagree with that and they should be allowed to fail and fail big. This should have happened in 2008 and 2009.

But again, if you KNOW a collapse is coming you don't buy up an investment you know is going to collapse betting the government will bail you out. You wait for the collapse and then swoop in for the bargains.

**NCRAVEN** · 06-28-2021, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Greg

Still doesn't make sense.

If they KNOW a collapse is coming they wouldn't buy property, they would sell and short.

If they know it's a possibility but is is also possible things will keep going up then they would invest with the idea that government has their back. And I don't disagree with that and they should be allowed to fail and fail big. This should have happened in 2008 and 2009.

But again, if you KNOW a collapse is coming you don't buy up an investment you know is going to collapse betting the government will bail you out. You wait for the collapse and then swoop in for the bargains.

I would say either they're buying property/assest to protect against hyper-inflation and/or the collapse will be big enough that the dollar is worthless and they want to own as much property as possible.

**NCRAVEN** · 06-28-2021, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by bandc

In this particular instance, they didn't ask for rules to be bent to towards themselves. They made it so that there were no rules at all. A free for all. May the best man win.

Is that not the libertarian/conservative ideal? Is that not free market capitalism at its core?

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No.

**bandc** · 06-28-2021, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Greg

Still doesn't make sense.

If they KNOW a collapse is coming they wouldn't buy property, they would sell and short.

If they know it's a possibility but is is also possible things will keep going up then they would invest with the idea that government has their back. And I don't disagree with that and they should be allowed to fail and fail big. This should have happened in 2008 and 2009.

But again, if you KNOW a collapse is coming you don't buy up an investment you know is going to collapse betting the government will bail you out. You wait for the collapse and then swoop in for the bargains.

Then please tell me why Black Rock and other investment companies are buying up homes and similar property like there's no tomorrow, when we both know there's a VERY good chance that A LOT of foreclosures will begin in 2 days.

We all know that this housing market is a bubble of some sort and yet they're doing the opposite of what you're saying they should do.

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**bandc** · 06-28-2021, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

No.

Then what is free market capitalism then if not that?

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**NCRAVEN** · 06-28-2021, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by bandc

Then what is free market capitalism then if not that?

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Does it matter? All you know is it's bad and needs to be destroyed. Not interested in a convo with a marxist on capitalism.

**bandc** · 06-28-2021, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Does it matter? All you know is it's bad and needs to be destroyed. Not interested in a convo with a marxist on capitalism.

I'm a Social Democrat. I believe that a lot of what capitalism does is important and necessary, but what we have now is obviously untenable.

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