Stover Calls for Replacement of Upshaw!

**RavenScallywag** · 04-08-2008, 04:19 PM

Damn! Mat Stover got some balls!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3336021

I don't really like Upshaw, so I'm happy with this, but more than anything, I like how Stover speaks and lays things out with this e-mail. For the record, I hope he comes back to the Ravens organization after a year or two of retirement. Whether he's a coach, a FO exec, hell anything, give him a position, he's a true spokesman of this organization.

**otherside_of_tracks** · 04-08-2008, 04:28 PM

Stover is the man. One of the most respected players in the locker room, and he's the most loved by the fans. Man i hope stover kicks into his 60's. even if it's just point afters.

**psuasskicker** · 04-08-2008, 04:59 PM

Not sure I like his words "looming battles against the owners".

I'm also a bit concerned this wasn't intended to see the light of day. This is the sort of thing that's far better done behind closed doors. Nothing good can come from this leak...could create a chasm in the NFLPA that really causes some major problems.

I agree with the sentiment. I can't stand Upshaw.

- C -

**Mista T** · 04-08-2008, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

could create a chasm in the NFLPA that really causes some major problems.

Why would that be a problem?

The best thing that could happen for football fans would be for the NFLPA to implode.

1977 Colts ticket prices for 40 yard line uppers were $10. 2007 Ravens ticket prices for 40 yard line uppers are $90. That's a whopping 900% increase. The Consumer Price Index increased by 199.8% in those same 30 years.

It's all on the players...... Greed!

**AZRAVEN** · 04-08-2008, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Mista T

Why would that be a problem?

The best thing that could happen for football fans would be for the NFLPA to implode.

1977 Colts ticket prices for 40 yard line uppers were $10. 2007 Ravens ticket prices for 40 yard line uppers are $90. That's a whopping 900% increase. The Consumer Price Index increased by 199.8% in those same 30 years.

It's all on the players...... Greed!

Personally I think there is enough blame to go around to both players and ownership being greedy. Plus why blame the players for taking advantage of idiot owners willing to break the bank for marginal talent every year. Look at some of the contracts these guys are getting in free agency, wwaaayyyy more than their talent justifies. Why did owners ever sign up to a system that pays rookie draftees who haven't proven a damn thing in the NFL the obscene money they are getting? Nope, IMO it can't all be laid at the feet of the players.

**highwater** · 04-08-2008, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker3

I'm also a bit concerned this wasn't intended to see the light of day. This is the sort of thing that's far better done behind closed doors.

It was supposed to done behind closed doors -- I don't know who leaked it, obviously, but Stover has already been called by the media and has refused to talk about it, because he didn't intend for it to go public like this.

But it's an interesting story, to say the least, and good for Stover for having the balls to speak for what I suspect is a majority of players who, for some reason, have refused to speak out about Upshaw.

**camdenyard** · 04-09-2008, 08:17 AM

1977 Colts ticket prices for 40 yard line uppers were $10. 2007 Ravens ticket prices for 40 yard line uppers are $90. That's a whopping 900% increase. The Consumer Price Index increased by 199.8% in those same 30 years.

It's all on the players...... Greed!

You simply cannot expect every industry to track the CPI. The price of corn, for example, has nothing to do with the growing popularity of a particular entertainment product. The NFL is a seperate vertical that needs to be evaluated on its own merits. Sure, ticket prices are high, but look what's happened since 1977:

- free agency
- explosion of TV coverage
- big wave of new stadiums, most with large numbers of luxury seats and boxes
- PSLs
- $9 beers (ugh)

Yeah, the players are making more - but it is only what the market will bear. You, Ted, of all people should appreciate that. And don't think for a minute that the owners aren't making out like bandits.

**Mista T** · 04-09-2008, 10:28 AM

Of course every industry varies from the CPI. But for my tickets to go up at 4 times the rate of inflation ... something is amiss. I lay the "blame" predominently on the NFLPA. NFL players' salaries are far out of line.

Of course, if the owners were tougher, perhaps the salaries would be in check. But why shouldn't the owners merely pass the costs onto the gullible consumers, such as me & you, who are willing to pay the outrageous costs for PSLs and game tickets?

As to new stadiums: yes, I like our new stadium. But if I had the choice of spending $30 to watch a Ravens game at Memorial Stadium vs. $90 at the new stadium, I would stay with the old. Some parochial Baltimoreans think that we have one of the NFL's great stadiums; I have been to most NFL stadiums, and frankly I would rank ours towards the bottom of the list of NFL stadiums built or rehabbed since the 1970s. It should have a removable roof, escalators to the upper deck, wider concourses, modern TVs, better restrooms, protected areas for warmth, and better tailgating facilities. It's a nice place, but not worth the money.

**Losac** · 04-09-2008, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mista T

As to new stadiums: yes, I like our new stadium. But if I had the choice of spending $30 to watch a Ravens game at Memorial Stadium vs. $90 at the new stadium, I would stay with the old. Some parochial Baltimoreans think that we have one of the NFL's great stadiums; I have been to most NFL stadiums, and frankly I would rank ours towards the bottom of the list of NFL stadiums built or rehabbed since the 1970s. It should have a removable roof, escalators to the upper deck, wider concourses, modern TVs, better restrooms, protected areas for warmth, and better tailgating facilities. It's a nice place, but not worth the money.

Our stadium is continually ranked near the top in the NFL for tailgating. And sorry, but I hope they never build a stadium with a retractable roof in Baltimore. Football is meant to be played in the elements. What are we the Indy Irsays here?

**psuasskicker** · 04-09-2008, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Mista T

Why would that be a problem?

The best thing that could happen for football fans would be for the NFLPA to implode.

1977 Colts ticket prices for 40 yard line uppers were $10. 2007 Ravens ticket prices for 40 yard line uppers are $90. That's a whopping 900% increase. The Consumer Price Index increased by 199.8% in those same 30 years.

It's all on the players...... Greed!

It quite simply isn't that easy. You can't have the NFLPA fall apart and not have it impact the sport in some fashion. Right now we've got a decent CBA in place, but if the PA falls apart, the CBA isn't in place for long, the owners can't negotiate new terms, we likely wind up going to an uncapped year, and things could really blow up from there.

The PA is probably a necessary evil to this, and it likely does more harm than good to have it get blown up. Yes, the players are being greedy. So are the owners. NFL is big business. Your ticket prices have gone up a lot, but you're still paying it. Most are. They aren't seeing attendance fall like in baseball and hockey. Until that happens, they can get away with charging huge prices, and frankly it's tough for me to blame the players when they're the ones performing and they just want a piece of the action.

Upshaw's an idiot, he's running things poorly. But the PA does more good for the sport than harm to it.

FWIW, even if the PA didn't exist and this year's salary cap was $10 million instead of over $100 million, you think your tickets would really be any cheaper if the owners knew you'd still pay $2,200 (or whatever) for your seats? Please...

- C -

**Mista T** · 04-09-2008, 11:48 AM

It's ranked at/near the top of tailgating because the the great Ravens fan tailgaters and the food & drink. You won't find crabfeasts and oyster shucking elsewhere. Also, the proximity to nearby taverns, Inner Harbor etc. No other NFL city outdoes Baltimore for the downtown coming alive on gameday - the tailgating is an integral piece of that statement.

I was adressing tailgating facilities per se. We have a sea of asphalt, no trees for shade, no flush toilets, no large enclosed tent areas, no marina (although we do have a laege swath of reeds and shoreline trash). There's a lot that could be done to improve our tailgating facilities.

**Greg** · 04-09-2008, 01:15 PM

Ted, I have to take issue with you.

The owners don't price tickets based on players' salaries, they price them on what they can get. With the cap, players salaries are fixed against income so if ticket prices were less they would automatically make less as a group.

The owners raise ticket prices because they can. If the players took a 50% pay cut do you think owners would pass on those savings to us? If you hire an employee for 25% less than you budgeted for on a contract that you won, do you then call up the customer and say "Hey, I saved $18K and I want to pass some or all of the savings onto you?"