OTA Thread

[HanktheRIPPER]

You can tell jk is straight up hungry!

[edromeo]

I think we’re seeing Lamar’s ceiling at being a prolific passer. Which in this offense works fine. Lamar isn’t ever gonna be Mahommes. He’s always gonna need that run element to be successful. Once Harbeckler exhausts that outa him ....he’s out. They’ll have to draft the next “great running QB “. Just my opinion Ed.

A lot of people throw around the term generational talent.
But in the literal definition of the word, Lamar is a generational talent. If any teams 'plan' involves finding another Lamar....or the next "great running QB" good Luck. Sure, you may be able to find an equivalent runner like a Terrell Pryor but good luck finding a QB that can do both.
The true, dual threat.

I remember having a long conversation with you awhile back....i think it was you?
I said that in college Lamar was at least as good a passer as Daniel Jones and a better passer Drew Lock and was showed the advanced stats.
Back then a lot of people disagreed with me. Flash forward, Lamar already has a league MVP and led the league in passing TDs.

I mention that only as a reminder that a lot of people have underestimated/discounted Lamar's ability as a passer from the outset.
And old beliefs die hard.

As far as Lamar needing the run element, I couldn't disagree more. Do you remember where this team was w/ Flacco in Lamar's rookie year?
Lamar doesn't need the run element the team needs/benefits from the run element that Lamar brings.
I think Lamar would be further along as a passer if he didn't have the most dynamic set of legs in the NFL at the QB position.
Lamar could easily put up passing numbers in a passing offense but the point is to win games.
The Ravens had choices in Lamar rookie season:
-do we plug Lamar into an offense that they already knew was a losing formula w/ a SB winning veteran QB
he would get to sling the ball around and develop as a passer and lose games
OR
-do we use Lamar's other worldly running ability to lift the run game, to lift the OL, to lift the RBs, to lift the offense and therefore life the team

Lamar doesn't need the run element to be successful the Ravens team does.

I think the Ravens are barely scratching the surface of Lamar's potential as a passer. I think we may be seeing the ceiling of Roman's ability to coach the passing game. Very few QBs have/will ever have Mahomes arm talent. But, when Lamar and Mahomes were college prospects Lamar was the QB that played in pro-style passing game. People forget that. Lamar was executing more complicated route concepts in college then Mahomes....heck many of the route concepts from Louisville were more complicated then what does w/ Roman. You could make the argument that Lamar as a passer hasn't improved much since college.

Whatever happens with Roman the path to success after him involves an offense that's a mix of the Ravens, Chiefs, Eagles, Seahawks and Cardinals.
That's when we'll see Lamar at his MVP of the league SB winning QB best.

Just my opinion

[TIGERBLOOD]

A lot of people throw around the term generational talent.
But in the literal definition of the word, Lamar is a generational talent. If any teams 'plan' involves finding another Lamar....or the next "great running QB" good Luck. Sure, you may be able to find an equivalent runner like a Terrell Pryor but good luck finding a QB that can do both.
The true, dual threat.

I remember having a long conversation with you awhile back....i think it was you?
I said that in college Lamar was at least as good a passer as Daniel Jones and a better passer Drew Lock and was showed the advanced stats.
Back then a lot of people disagreed with me. Flash forward, Lamar already has a league MVP and led the league in passing TDs.

I mention that only as a reminder that a lot of people have underestimated/discounted Lamar's ability as a passer from the outset.
And old beliefs die hard.

As far as Lamar needing the run element, I couldn't disagree more. Do you remember where this team was w/ Flacco in Lamar's rookie year?
Lamar doesn't need the run element the team needs/benefits from the run element that Lamar brings.
I think Lamar would be further along as a passer if he didn't have the most dynamic set of legs in the NFL at the QB position.
Lamar could easily put up passing numbers in a passing offense but the point is to win games.
The Ravens had choices in Lamar rookie season:
-do we plug Lamar into an offense that they already knew was a losing formula w/ a SB winning veteran QB
he would get to sling the ball around and develop as a passer and lose games
OR
-do we use Lamar's other worldly running ability to lift the run game, to lift the OL, to lift the RBs, to lift the offense and therefore life the team

Lamar doesn't need the run element to be successful the Ravens team does.

I think the Ravens are barely scratching the surface of Lamar's potential as a passer. I think we may be seeing the ceiling of Roman's ability to coach the passing game. Very few QBs have/will ever have Mahomes arm talent. But, when Lamar and Mahomes were college prospects Lamar was the QB that played in pro-style passing game. People forget that. Lamar was executing more complicated route concepts in college then Mahomes....heck many of the route concepts from Louisville were more complicated then what does w/ Roman. You could make the argument that Lamar as a passer hasn't improved much since college.

Whatever happens with Roman the path to success after him involves an offense that's a mix of the Ravens, Chiefs, Eagles, Seahawks and Cardinals.
That's when we'll see Lamar at his MVP of the league SB winning QB best.

Just my opinion

It was interesting to hear Sammy Watkins talk about how complex the offense was after his first week of OTAs with the team. I'm not sure I've ever heard someone call a Gregg Roman offense "complex", unless Sammy was talking about all the complex blocking assignments he has now.

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[edromeo]

It was interesting to hear Sammy Watkins talk about how complex the offense was after his first week of OTAs with the team. I'm not sure I've ever heard someone call a Gregg Roman offense "complex", unless Sammy was talking about all the complex blocking assignments he has now.

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Yeah, I heard that but it seemed like Sammy was referring to shifts and motions and yeah sure Roman’s offense has bells and whistles.

I’m talking about the passing concepts.

I think if we’re honest we can admit Greg’s passing concepts aren’t complex? I’m not saying they’re bad or ineffective. But he’s not exactly dialing up Sean Peyton’s passing concepts.

[NOLARavenFAN]

I've been watching Sean Payton a long time with Drew Brees, he doesn't have any complex patterns...... ,he has simple patterns......but there is an element of surprise in what Brees would do with the ball. Brees avoided being predictable and he would move the ball around .....and the mix of run and pass was hard to predict which player was going to be featured....bit as far as complex. Not at all I don't agree with that

The Saints put big time players in position to make big plays. That is what the game is all about. Stepping up to make big plays....

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[edromeo]

I've been watching Sean Payton a long time with Drew Brees, he doesn't have any complex patterns...... ,he has simple patterns......but there is an element of surprise in what Brees would do with the ball. Brees avoided being predictable and he would move the ball around .....and the mix of run and pass was hard to predict which player was going to be featured....bit as far as complex. Not at all I don't agree with that

The Saints put big time players in position to make big plays. That is what the game is all about. Stepping up to make big plays....

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Okay, so you don’t view Sean Peyton’s passing game as complex.
Which passing game would you say is more complex between Roman vs Peyton?

[Laxdad24]

A lot of people throw around the term generational talent.
But in the literal definition of the word, Lamar is a generational talent. If any teams 'plan' involves finding another Lamar....or the next "great running QB" good Luck. Sure, you may be able to find an equivalent runner like a Terrell Pryor but good luck finding a QB that can do both.
The true, dual threat.

I remember having a long conversation with you awhile back....i think it was you?
I said that in college Lamar was at least as good a passer as Daniel Jones and a better passer Drew Lock and was showed the advanced stats.
Back then a lot of people disagreed with me. Flash forward, Lamar already has a league MVP and led the league in passing TDs.

I mention that only as a reminder that a lot of people have underestimated/discounted Lamar's ability as a passer from the outset.
And old beliefs die hard.

As far as Lamar needing the run element, I couldn't disagree more. Do you remember where this team was w/ Flacco in Lamar's rookie year?
Lamar doesn't need the run element the team needs/benefits from the run element that Lamar brings.
I think Lamar would be further along as a passer if he didn't have the most dynamic set of legs in the NFL at the QB position.
Lamar could easily put up passing numbers in a passing offense but the point is to win games.
The Ravens had choices in Lamar rookie season:
-do we plug Lamar into an offense that they already knew was a losing formula w/ a SB winning veteran QB
he would get to sling the ball around and develop as a passer and lose games
OR
-do we use Lamar's other worldly running ability to lift the run game, to lift the OL, to lift the RBs, to lift the offense and therefore life the team

Lamar doesn't need the run element to be successful the Ravens team does.

I think the Ravens are barely scratching the surface of Lamar's potential as a passer. I think we may be seeing the ceiling of Roman's ability to coach the passing game. Very few QBs have/will ever have Mahomes arm talent. But, when Lamar and Mahomes were college prospects Lamar was the QB that played in pro-style passing game. People forget that. Lamar was executing more complicated route concepts in college then Mahomes....heck many of the route concepts from Louisville were more complicated then what does w/ Roman. You could make the argument that Lamar as a passer hasn't improved much since college.

Whatever happens with Roman the path to success after him involves an offense that's a mix of the Ravens, Chiefs, Eagles, Seahawks and Cardinals.
That's when we'll see Lamar at his MVP of the league SB winning QB best.

Just my opinion

It may have been me ? Anyway ...those two guys are not who I’d hang my comparison on. Lol. They both blow. I wouldn’t want either for a back up ..let alone a starter.

And to your point ..college numbers mean zero at the NFL level. Competition is sooo much higher. But we have to use something...right. Lol. Guys who I thought threw a pretty ball are out of the league now. So ..shows what I know.

I’m enjoying the ride. Just hope we don’t end up in Cap hell with a huge contract. We def need to be more efficient in the pass game. Especially in the playoffs.


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[BcRaven]

Awesome pic!
Not bad for a RB!

J.K. Dobbins Will Be More Involved in Passing Game :

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news...n-passing-game

" As Dobbins enters Year 2 as a primary back in the Ravens' backfield, he'll see more passes thrown his way as Baltimore's passing attack continues to evolve.

"One of the main points of emphasis has been to involve our running backs in the passing game more," Head Coach John Harbaugh said. "J.K, obviously, is going to be a focal point in that." "


If our WR corps shows upgrade/improvement, and RBs (especially Dobbins) are involved in the passing game too, this offense can be mighty dangerous... Bc

[edromeo]

It may have been me ? Anyway ...those two guys are not who I’d hang my comparison on. Lol. They both blow. I wouldn’t want either for a back up ..let alone a starter.

And to your point ..college numbers mean zero at the NFL level. Competition is sooo much higher. But we have to use something...right. Lol. Guys who I thought threw a pretty ball are out of the league now. So ..shows what I know.

I’m enjoying the ride. Just hope we don’t end up in Cap hell with a huge contract. We def need to be more efficient in the pass game. Especially in the playoffs.

I only mentioned* that as a reminder of how Lamar was viewed at the time, back then people on this forum thought those 2 especially Daniel Jones was a better passer then Lamar. You mentioned that some QBs that you thought threw a pretty ball are out of the league. That comment makes me think of Josh Rosen, i remember it was widely considered that Rosen was the "best pocket passer" in that draft class and I remember pushing back on that and posting their passing stats* both counting and advanced side-by-side. This again may seem like a bad comp in hindsight but Rosen was a good pocket passer...his failure seems to be a mix of attitude and inability to escape pressure and inability to execute when pressured.

*https://forum.russellstreetreport.co...40#post1827540

*Rosen - Lamar college passing comp:
https://forum.russellstreetreport.co...63#post1827563

Considering that people underrated Lamar as passer then many probably still wrongly view him in the same light. And that view may limit their view of Lamar's potential as passer even now.

College numbers might not mean anything but i didn't mention college numbers as a stand alone argument. I mention them in comparison to other QBs at the time. I think the more important aspect of the college comps is the skillset and pro-readiness, specifically Lamar's ability to execute more complex passing concepts....which suggests that the limiting factor in the passing game isn't Lamar's ability but Roman and his staff's ability to develop/coach it. (Kurt Warner and JT O'Sullivan have good breakdowns on it)

It has been one hell of ride and hopefully it ends in SB this year but I think the ride is just getting started and its only going get better when Lamar reaches his potential whether its with in this offense or the next.

---

compiling some older research posts Lamar in college prospect:
https://forum.russellstreetreport.co...06#post1827606

https://forum.russellstreetreport.co...21#post1827621

https://forum.russellstreetreport.co...54#post1827554

https://forum.russellstreetreport.co...40#post1827540

[jaydee414]

IMHO, the biggest thing LJ needs to improve upon is grasping the concept of anticipating the “openess” of his receivers. Too often it seems as if he waits for them to be “open-open” instead of seeing that they WILL be open in two or three strides.

[edromeo]

IMHO, the biggest thing LJ needs to improve upon is grasping the concept of anticipating the “openess” of his receivers. Too often it seems as if he waits for them to be “open-open” instead of seeing that they WILL be open in two or three strides.

Good point. I agree that anticipation passes (especially on the outside) are an area where Lamar needs to improve. Imho, there are several factors involved. But, when Lamar's footwork is right though, i think he's a good anticipatory passer, especially over the middle.

-Hesitation? QB can't throw with anticipation if they hesitate.
Why didn't Lamar pull the trigger on some throws or hesitate on some throws?
Why did Lamar "adlib' instead of executing the play design?
Is it lack of comfort/confidence in the passing game concepts? Nerves (playoff game)? Too much focus on getting the ball to Andrews/Hollywood?
-I think part of the solution here is playdesign/playcall....find easy looks early in the game to get Lamar settled down.
I know Andy Reid/Holmgren (a bunch of other coaches) have "easy" designed throws early in the game plan that were 'gimmies' for the QB to execute. Screen passes, RPOs, play-action, Quick RB primary routes. So it was good to hear them work on throwing to the back in OTAs (although its probably just routine install).
-I think another aspect is coaching ability emphasis....how much well are Roman/coaches coaching the concepts? Are they emphasizing to Lamar to attempt/make certain throws...how much emphasize are the putting on throwing downfield? Lamar's number of downfield throws were low, especially considering the types of defensive looks the Raven faced. The amount of play-action and RPOs were also low.

-Footwork?
I think some of the lack of anticipation is linked to his footwork. In a rhythm passing game the dropback footwork is essential because it leads the QB to the throw. So if the footwork is off then the timing is off, then the QB is gonna be late/early with the throw and its hard to make anticipatory passes....(especially outside the numbers) if the timing is off.
Imho footwork is both a Lamar problem and a coaching problem, i think the QBs ability to execute the proper footwork is directly related to coaching.

I think/expect/hope many of the issues can be improved with having a normal offseason which gives the coaches, Lamar and the passing unit as whole more time to work on these issues. I also think upgrades along the OL and receiving corps will help....along w/ the new coaches Tee Martin and Keith Williams.

For me thoughts always go back to Louisville and watching Lamar execute Petrino's Erhardt-Perkin pro-style passing concepts at a high level.* I have a strong belief that Lamar can execute the rhythm dropback passing game with precise disciplined footwork at high level because I've saw him do it in college with concepts that are more complicated then a lot of the pass concepts we saw with Lamar last year.

Greg Cosell on Lamar Jackson pro-style passing concepts:
*https://mobile.twitter.com/NFLFilms/...93942471151616

[edromeo]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Ravenswintitle again.

Good info! ty