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  1. #13

    Re: Suggs retirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I disagree, Yanda will be first ballot. Look at the amount of pro bowls and all pros he made... he matches up with all of the recent HOF interior guys.
    Marshall Yanda played in 177 games over 13 seasons, He went to 8 Pro Bowls, and made the 1st-team All-Pro list twice.

    Alan Faneca played in 206 games over 13 seasons. He went to 9 Pro Bowls, and was named 1st-team All-Pro 6 times.

    It took Alan Faneca SIX tries before he finally made the HOF
    "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but NOT to their own facts" - Daniel P. Moynihan





  2. #14
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    Re: Suggs retirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    Marshall Yanda played in 177 games over 13 seasons, He went to 8 Pro Bowls, and made the 1st-team All-Pro list twice.

    Alan Faneca played in 206 games over 13 seasons. He went to 9 Pro Bowls, and was named 1st-team All-Pro 6 times.

    It took Alan Faneca SIX tries before he finally made the HOF
    It took both Faneca and Hutchinson too long to get their calls. They both should have been first ballot. Not really sure what the voters thought changed between their first years of eligibility and the year they got in. I guess the argument can come down to whether a player at another position is more deserving or just an easier selection to make the case for. With marshal it will come down to whether the other members of his class are just "easier" votes. His resume and mythology stands on it's own. The universal respect from his opponents just bolsters it. Marshal playing during the time of the NFL Top 100 list might serve to help his case as well. I'm glad Sizzle made it into the top 10 in all time sacks. Should pretty much make him an auto-selection even for the laziest of HOF voters.





  3. #15

    Re: Suggs retirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    But he's not just competing with every other eligible guard.
    He's competing with ever other eligible player at any position for one of only 5 slots available each year.

    The only pure guard elected to the HoF on the 1st ballot in the modern era? The Patriot's John Hannah (1991). And Hannah was a TEN-TIME 1st-team All-pro
    To this day I haven't seen a more dominant guard than John Hannah. It would have been "criminal negligence" if he wasn't voted in on the 1st ballot. I know there is a lot of " recency bias" when people judge players nowadays, but anybody old enough to have seen Hannah play will tell you what a dominant, dominant player he was. My God it was fun watching him literally destroy people.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4JAjAUt5T0





  4. #16

    Re: Suggs retirement?

    Yanda will get in IMHO, but like others have said, it won't be first ballot. For whatever reason, guards are just never 1st ballot (except Hannah and I think Larry Allen?). Some of the most dominant of my lifetime of really watching football...Will Shields, Alan Faneca, Steve Hutchinson all had to wait. If they had to wait, most of them with more accolades than Yanda...unfortunately, so will Marshal.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.





  5. #17
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    Re: Suggs retirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Yanda will get in IMHO, but like others have said, it won't be first ballot. For whatever reason, guards are just never 1st ballot (except Hannah and I think Larry Allen?). Some of the most dominant of my lifetime of really watching football...Will Shields, Alan Faneca, Steve Hutchinson all had to wait. If they had to wait, most of them with more accolades than Yanda...unfortunately, so will Marshal.
    I think that's because OGs don't accumulate stats like QBs, WRs, Pass Rushers, D-backs, etc. So they're rated somewhat on "perception" and longevity. I'm glad the voters take their sweet time because you only want the best-of-the-best in the Pro Football HOF. Not like the best-of-the-good as in the baseball HOF... Bc





  6. #18
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    Re: Suggs retirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    I think that's because OGs don't accumulate stats like QBs, WRs, Pass Rushers, D-backs, etc. So they're rated somewhat on "perception" and longevity. I'm glad the voters take their sweet time because you only want the best-of-the-best in the Pro Football HOF. Not like the best-of-the-good as in the baseball HOF... Bc
    I get where you're coming from, but it's a flawed system in that regard. A guy is a HOFer or he isn't. Whether it takes one year of debate or 7, the stats don't change. They have 5 years to dissect and digest the tape and assess the overall career through film and peer review. Love him or hate him, TO was the most glaring example of how flawed it can be. In what universe was he not a first ballot lock? I don't care if you don't like him personally. The debate over positions like safety and OG seem like nothing more than theater to me. Hutch wasn't a hall of famer after 5 years but he suddenly was after 8? Makes absolutely no sense. Players shouldn't be penalized for being great while someone else was also great. There's always talk about a "logjam" but if they did their jobs right, there wouldn't ever be one. If you retire as one of the game's all time best and then 5 years later you are still considered to be one of the all time best, you get in. Simple.





  7. #19

    Re: Suggs retirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rygar64 View Post
    I get where you're coming from, but it's a flawed system in that regard. A guy is a HOFer or he isn't. Whether it takes one year of debate or 7, the stats don't change. They have 5 years to dissect and digest the tape and assess the overall career through film and peer review. Love him or hate him, TO was the most glaring example of how flawed it can be. In what universe was he not a first ballot lock? I don't care if you don't like him personally. The debate over positions like safety and OG seem like nothing more than theater to me. Hutch wasn't a hall of famer after 5 years but he suddenly was after 8? Makes absolutely no sense. Players shouldn't be penalized for being great while someone else was also great. There's always talk about a "logjam" but if they did their jobs right, there wouldn't ever be one. If you retire as one of the game's all time best and then 5 years later you are still considered to be one of the all time best, you get in. Simple.
    There will always be 'log jams' when all positions are lumped together. QB, RB, Receiver, Sacker's & Interceptor are all SPLASH players - Splash gets press and headlines. Linemen that do their job and do it to HOF standards get no splash and no headlines - game after game after game season after season. Since the HOF's business model is to draw in fans - they want SPLASH players to draw the fans. Linemen don't draw in the fans.





  8. #20
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    Re: Suggs retirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi16 View Post
    There will always be 'log jams' when all positions are lumped together. QB, RB, Receiver, Sacker's & Interceptor are all SPLASH players - Splash gets press and headlines. Linemen that do their job and do it to HOF standards get no splash and no headlines - game after game after game season after season. Since the HOF's business model is to draw in fans - they want SPLASH players to draw the fans. Linemen don't draw in the fans.
    I know. I will say as a former lineman and a father to two high school linemen, YANDA definitely draws us in, but I know we are in the minority, lol.

    You know, if the Hall really wants to adapt their business model as you call it, they could make it like the Emmy's and Oscars. Split the ceremony. Have one for the "unsung" behind the scenes folks(linemen, kickers, safeties) and then the other one for the "highlight" players. I've been to the "creative arts" Emmy awards a couple of times and IMO it's just as awesome and sometimes more so than the "primetime" show that gets televised nationally. Almost as many of the "stars" come out to recognize, appreciate and present awards to all the folks that do the unseen dirty work. That would be a novel approach to eliminating the self-inflicted logjam.





  9. #21

    Re: Suggs retirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rygar64 View Post
    I know. I will say as a former lineman and a father to two high school linemen, YANDA definitely draws us in, but I know we are in the minority, lol.

    You know, if the Hall really wants to adapt their business model as you call it, they could make it like the Emmy's and Oscars. Split the ceremony. Have one for the "unsung" behind the scenes folks(linemen, kickers, safeties) and then the other one for the "highlight" players. I've been to the "creative arts" Emmy awards a couple of times and IMO it's just as awesome and sometimes more so than the "primetime" show that gets televised nationally. Almost as many of the "stars" come out to recognize, appreciate and present awards to all the folks that do the unseen dirty work. That would be a novel approach to eliminating the self-inflicted logjam.
    The need to set up categories which different positions fall into - so the decisions are made by judging like and like. Not a Splash player against player that are only known to the game program by his number.

    Suggs Splash will likely get him in the HOF long before Yanda.





  10. #22
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    Re: Suggs retirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi16 View Post
    The need to set up categories which different positions fall into - so the decisions are made by judging like and like. Not a Splash player against player that are only known to the game program by his number.

    Suggs Splash will likely get him in the HOF long before Yanda.
    It absolutely will, I am not disagreeing with you...I'm saying that's lazy as fuck. Anyone that has ever played football or really watches and understands the game knows why a guy like Yanda is just as important to your team's success as a guy like Suggs - stat sheet be damned.





  11. #23
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    Re: Suggs retirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi16 View Post
    There will always be 'log jams' when all positions are lumped together. QB, RB, Receiver, Sacker's & Interceptor are all SPLASH players - Splash gets press and headlines. Linemen that do their job and do it to HOF standards get no splash and no headlines - game after game after game season after season. Since the HOF's business model is to draw in fans - they want SPLASH players to draw the fans. Linemen don't draw in the fans.
    double m i16, yours was a very good observation. Rygar's comment "it's a flawed system" while I understand where he's coming from, cannot be sculpted into an ideal system... actually none can be made perfect. I'd certainly like him to show me (us) one that exists.
    Everything is OPINION. Look at the baseball HOF, or the Oscars, or any other gathering of people in a specific profession in which awards are given, then tell me the "voters" are totally impartial. That would certainly give me a hearty belly laugh... Bc





  12. #24
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    Re: Suggs retirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    double m i16, yours was a very good observation. Rygar's comment "it's a flawed system" while I understand where he's coming from, cannot be sculpted into an ideal system... actually none can be made perfect. I'd certainly like him to show me (us) one that exists.
    Everything is OPINION. Look at the baseball HOF, or the Oscars, or any other gathering of people in a specific profession in which awards are given, then tell me the "voters" are totally impartial. That would certainly give me a hearty belly laugh... Bc
    Oh I'm not saying that BC. But opinion or not, there are guys who have played in the NFL whose careers really can't be questioned IMO. For those guys, there really shouldn't be a debate. I'm obviously a homer when it comes to Ravens players, but I stand by my TO example. Any writer or contributor that held the opinion that he wasn't a Hall of Famer should be stripped of their credentials and not allowed to vote again.





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