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  1. #61
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    Re: Messages sent to these two

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    I thought I was going crazy so I went back to re-read the thread to see where people are questioning these players' want to. I can't find a single post where the issue of commitment or effort was raised. The only shade thrown on Tavon is lack of availability because of legitimate injuries. There is a 10,000 page thread on Boykin and I don't think there is a single post that suggests he lacks effort.

    There is no schadenfreude here. I am willing to bet that 100% of people who have commented here would prefer seeing these two players emerge as reliable stars.

    These guys earned the right to be drafted because they were the cream of the college crop. But there is a saying in baseball about getting to The Show being one thing...but staying in The Show is the thing.

    NFL rosters turn over every year. Guys who haven't established themselves after a few seasons get replaced on rosters by rookie players who will embark on their own journey to become established.

    This thread is about a couple of players who, for whatever reason—unfair or unfortunate or not—could find themselves on the wrong end of that equation. It's just a fact.

    I'm unclear what's annoying about the discussion.
    What’s annoying ... and I went back and read you initial post multiple times - is that it’s preposterous that the double dipping at WR and CB was done to send a message (you excepted OLB because they were positions of need).

    Since you cut out the part of my post that addresses why I’ll add another reason: whether DeCosta wants them to be Ravens beyond 2022 or not he is still going to fill the roster with talent to the best of his abilities in order to avoid having limited options. Superstar? Yep draft his replacement so he can walk and the Ravens can get a high comp pick and move on. Bum? Draft someone we hope can take snaps. Anyone? Draft a player you hope is better so the coach gets competition and holes are avoided in later years. Select BPA because from a value perspective you have the fewest holes to fill with free agents. That is all. “Sending a message” to players with draft picks may happen in highly dysfunctional franchises but if you think the Ozzy/DeCosta brain trust would not laugh talk like that out of a draft room I din’t think you have been paying close attention to how the team operates.

    You’re a good poster Shah and I don’t want a fight about it but it’s nothing more than the business of football happening. Wade really looks like a high-value pick and a good roster hole due to Tavon’s not-insignificant injury risk. God I am pulling for Tavon because he is a baller. Miles is gifted like Waller and could have a similar trajectory. But Wallace looks like he could be a super slot WR and I bet he helps the team.





  2. #62

    Re: Messages sent to these two

    Look, it sounds like the objection here is the choice of, "message sent" in the title, which is being taken literally, as if I am saying draft decisions were made primarily to send messages to Young and Boykin. I'm not saying that.

    I think you're making it more complicated than I see it. Of course the team is always adding for the future. And all I am saying is that when they make big investments in players at certain players you know those players are going to be given a chance. So it's a numbers game. It's nothing personal against Young and Boykin.

    The 2020 roster included 3 receivers who aren't on the team Moore, Snead and Bryant. Moore barely even counts with basically only limited use in week 17, twelve snaps. Bryant averaged about 20 snaps in three games. Between the two of them they don't ever really qualify as one roster spot. So, if they are adding three WRs it seemed fair to suggest someone's job is in jeopardy. One new guy will get Sneads snaps. But the other two will impact others in the WR negatively, be that snaps or a roster spot altogether.

    For me to point to Boykin as someone who sees what may be coming doesn't seem controversial to me, while granted you could also look at Proche.

    I never said DeCosta signed one and drafted two WRs because he intended to make a statement about Boykin. I never said that Eric made draft decisions so that certain players on the roster would wake up. That's absurd. He made decisions because they weren't satisfied with the room in general and the draft fell in a way where players they liked were there for the taking. Of course he was merely determined to bring in more talent for the future, and let the best man win.

    But those decisions create a numbers game, at certain positions and put pressure on certain players at those positions and that's what I mean by sending a message. The message is that when some new men are just about guaranteed to win, some other man is just about guaranteed to lose. That's the message indirectly sent but heard loud and clear.

    The same math can be done with the cornerbacks. They added two to a group that already didn't have Young on the roster after game 2 last year. And they have a handful of young cheap corners in the wings. The room currently consists of eleven corners.

    Marlon Humphrey, Marcus Peters, Anthony Averett, Jimmy Smith, Khalil Dorsey, Davontae Harris, Iman Marshall, Chris Westry, Tavon Young, Shaun Wade, Brandon Stephens

    If you want to call Stephens a safety, okay, but it's a big DB room, and Young is a guy set to count $6MM and $9MM against the cap the next two years. Again, it's just math. The fact that the room is stuffed with cheap talent has to be a message to Young, regardless of DeCosta's intentions.
    "That's what."
    — She





  3. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Central NJ
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    Re: Messages sent to these two

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    Look, it sounds like the objection here is the choice of, "message sent" in the title, which is being taken literally, as if I am saying draft decisions were made primarily to send messages to Young and Boykin. I'm not saying that.

    I think you're making it more complicated than I see it. Of course the team is always adding for the future. And all I am saying is that when they make big investments in players at certain players you know those players are going to be given a chance. So it's a numbers game. It's nothing personal against Young and Boykin.

    The 2020 roster included 3 receivers who aren't on the team Moore, Snead and Bryant. Moore barely even counts with basically only limited use in week 17, twelve snaps. Bryant averaged about 20 snaps in three games. Between the two of them they don't ever really qualify as one roster spot. So, if they are adding three WRs it seemed fair to suggest someone's job is in jeopardy. One new guy will get Sneads snaps. But the other two will impact others in the WR negatively, be that snaps or a roster spot altogether.

    For me to point to Boykin as someone who sees what may be coming doesn't seem controversial to me, while granted you could also look at Proche.

    I never said DeCosta signed one and drafted two WRs because he intended to make a statement about Boykin. I never said that Eric made draft decisions so that certain players on the roster would wake up. That's absurd. He made decisions because they weren't satisfied with the room in general and the draft fell in a way where players they liked were there for the taking. Of course he was merely determined to bring in more talent for the future, and let the best man win.

    But those decisions create a numbers game, at certain positions and put pressure on certain players at those positions and that's what I mean by sending a message. The message is that when some new men are just about guaranteed to win, some other man is just about guaranteed to lose. That's the message indirectly sent but heard loud and clear.

    The same math can be done with the cornerbacks. They added two to a group that already didn't have Young on the roster after game 2 last year. And they have a handful of young cheap corners in the wings. The room currently consists of eleven corners.

    Marlon Humphrey, Marcus Peters, Anthony Averett, Jimmy Smith, Khalil Dorsey, Davontae Harris, Iman Marshall, Chris Westry, Tavon Young, Shaun Wade, Brandon Stephens

    If you want to call Stephens a safety, okay, but it's a big DB room, and Young is a guy set to count $6MM and $9MM against the cap the next two years. Again, it's just math. The fact that the room is stuffed with cheap talent has to be a message to Young, regardless of DeCosta's intentions.
    Well if I got too hung up on the message sent part, guilty as charged. I agree with this post completely.





  4. #64

    Re: Messages sent to these two

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackBeak View Post
    Well if I got too hung up on the message sent part, guilty as charged. I agree with this post completely.
    No problem. I am glad we cleared it up.

    I was guilty of the exact same thing a couple weeks ago, in the thread "There can only be One #1 WR - Hollywood vs Bateman" where I was hung up on the idea that there is room for both, and everyone told me that the discussion wasn't implying we had to choose, even though the thread title implied we did.

    So, kharma is a bitch.
    "That's what."
    — She





  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    Sacramento, CA
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    Re: Messages sent to these two






  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    3,235

    Re: Messages sent to these two

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    No problem. I am glad we cleared it up.

    I was guilty of the exact same thing a couple weeks ago, in the thread "There can only be One #1 WR - Hollywood vs Bateman" where I was hung up on the idea that there is room for both, and everyone told me that the discussion wasn't implying we had to choose, even though the thread title implied we did.

    So, kharma is a bitch.
    Not to beat the horse skeleton further, but thread titles are "kinda" important to shaping the discussion that flows from them. The title and some of the posts do give off the vibe that EDC and the FO are sitting in the draft room and thinking "who can we draft to wake up our shitlist players?" It's an absurdly simple way to look at how/why certain positions were drafted. I get that spending significant draft capital tends to lead some of us to believe that a guy will be given every opportunity to displace someone else at their position...but it still is just based on potential/speculation until they get out on the field. If "Slack Daddy", "Mr. IR" and the "Tiger in the tall grass" all come in healthy, hungry and clearly better than guys that were drafted to potentially replace them, those replacements will sit. Of course, that would probably convince some folks that the only reason those guys showed out is because their jobs were threatened, lol.





  7. #67

    Re: Messages sent to these two

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    LOL
    "That's what."
    — She





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