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Thread: Right tackle?

  1. Right tackle?

    For me, the biggest stunner of the evening last night was passing over Jenkins, not once, but twice. That said, maybe it shouldn’t have been.

    I had the pleasure of watching Filmstudy’s draft coverage last night, and Ken pointed-out - several times in the first hour - how many “T-Rex” lineman there are in this year’s draft. By Ken’s assessment, an Arm length of 33.5” is the “Mendoza line” for tackles.

    That observation lead me to this little nugget, which I found on another Ravens-centric site:

    “Since 2010, every OT Baltimore has drafted measured at least 6054 (6-foot-5 and 4/8 inches) with 34 inch arms or longer (Ramon Harewood’s 33.125 inch arms the lone exception.)”

    As Harbs comes from the Reid coaching tree, I found this similarity way more than coincidental:

    “According to Arrowhead Pride's Kent Swanson, the average arm length of a tackle for head coach Andy Reid is 34 1/4 inches. When comparing that to the top 20 tackles in this year's draft, only six meet or exceed that measurement.”

    Source: https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/podcas...ensive-tackles

    With that context, here are the measurements of some of the top prospects:

    Darrisaw
    6'4 3/4" / Arm length: 34 1/2 / height below threshold / drafted 23rd

    Leatherwood
    6’6 / Arm length: 33 7/8 / arms below threshold / drafted 17th

    Jenkins
    6’5 7/8” / Arm length 33 1/2 / arms below threshold / not drafted in the 1st

    Sewell
    6’4 / Arm length: 33 1/4 / below both thresholds / drafted 7th

    Slater
    6’4 / Arm length: 33 / below both thresholds / drafted 13th

    Vera-Tucker
    6’4 1/2” / Arm length 32 1/8 / below both thresholds / drafted 14th

    Let me also say this about Jenkins, and then I’ll move-on. While this angle didn’t seem to get a lot of traction pre-draft, I did take notice of comments such as these in a few of his draft profiles:

    “Some scouts voiced concerns about football character.” - Zierlein

    "I think he goes early [on Day 2]," said a national scout. "He's an odd dude and might quit on you, but has all the tangibles." - WalterFootball

    So my point is, perhaps the Ravens have their tackle “mold” and the guys available within reason - Darrisaw, who would have required a trade-up and Jenkins, who was passed-over - weren’t worth the draft capital.

    Then why in the he*# did they trade Brown if most of this was known beforehand?

    I heard someone say last night that the Ravens were probably betting on Leatherwood being available at 31, but that commentary wasn’t based upon any insider info. and was simply speculation.

    Others are pointing to the rumors about Villanueva, like its a done deal, but I am skeptical. The man has played LT his entire professional career. I know these guys are world class athletes, and that they can adapt, but I challenge you to go outside today and throw a pitch with your opposite hand. In fact, I want you to go through the motion of a full wind-up, as if pitching off of a mound, and throw a baseball with your opposite hand. Even the step back feels weird, doesn’t it? Remember the Michael Oher LT-RT switching debacle? It’s just not that easy to untrained and retrain muscle memory.

    That said, I just cannot bring myself to believe that the Ravens traded Brown with contingency plans A and B being Tyree Phillips and a developmental midround tackle from this year’s draft. As such, I am pinning my hopes on a reunion with Ricky Wagner. I’ve read in several places that he is contemplating retirement, but I am hoping that the familiarity of the Ravens and a chance at a ring will be enough to “bring him home” for a year or two, and I am hoping that there is a nod-nod, wink-wink deal already in place.

    If not, yikes.





  2. #2
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    Re: Right tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmishlandRavenFan View Post

    Others are pointing to the rumors about Villanueva, like its a done deal, but I am skeptical. The man has played LT his entire professional career. I know these guys are world class athletes, and that they can adapt, but I challenge you to go outside today and throw a pitch with your opposite hand. In fact, I want you to go through the motion of a full wind-up, as if pitching off of a mound, and throw a baseball with your opposite hand. Even the step back feels weird, doesn’t it? Remember the Michael Oher LT-RT switching debacle? It’s just not that easy to untrained and retrain muscle memory.
    To be fair the Ravens handled OBJ exactly like this: he was a LT in college, then the Ravens moved him to RT. Worked out well. Then Stanley gets hurt and OBJ moves to LT. Worked out well. Maybe it will be harder for Villanueva. Maybe. But they brought him in and talked to him so I'd guess that they are pretty certain if he can make the change. And remember they also brought in Kelly who is a RT.

    I think we can be really sure at this point that a vet will be the starting RT next year.





  3. #3

    Re: Right tackle?

    The reasons for trading Brown are already well documented. I too was surprised Ravens and 31 other teams passed on him. Clearly not rated very high on the board. Pretty sure they have a plan to attack the tackle position in the 3rd round. I'm curious to know where you found this nugget in bold.

    “Since 2010, every OT Baltimore has drafted measured at least 6054 (6-foot-5 and 4/8 inches) with 34 inch arms or longer (Ramon Harewood’s 33.125 inch arms the lone exception.)”
    Bleed Purple but don't be a homer





  4. #4
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    Re: Right tackle?

    The Ravens met with Tackles plural. It was Villanueva and Dennis Kelly. It's possible they sign both and let them compete in camp. A free agent RT is clearly part of the plan. They might draft a Tackle at some point too but it's not a hole they expect to definitely fill through the draft.
    Long Live The Bat





  5. #5

    Re: Right tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    The Ravens met with Tackles plural. It was Villanueva and Dennis Kelly. It's possible they sign both and let them compete in camp. A free agent RT is clearly part of the plan. They might draft a Tackle at some point too but it's not a hole they expect to definitely fill through the draft.
    The snapping up of Darrishaw & Leatherwood and the dual passovers on Jenkins suggest that we won't be drafting a starting RT. I'd love to try Villanueva: a good character player (USMA) with AFCN experience (can't wait to stick it to the Yinzers when their "old soldier" blocks TJ Watt). Villanueva can learn RT just fine. In fact as he ages, he is probably better off @ RT. But he's also an experienced LT if Stanley isn't ready week 1 or gets dinged @ some point. The Stoolers seem done with him.





  6. #6

    Re: Right tackle?

    I think when you look at a draft board, a pertinent factor is how much better the player you're considering is than the next guy at that postion in line behind him.

    I did not love the Bateman pick, but I understood the logic behind it. I think the Ravens likely valued WR highly in this draft and saw the gap between Bateman and the next player down (Moore or Marshall) as significant.

    I liked the Oweh pick quite a bit because EDGE was an obvious need and there was a huge drop after Jayson to the next guy in line after him....like an Ossai or Brown.

    I do not see that type of gap among RTs. I like Jenkins' attitude and mean streak, but there are still plenty of comparable talents at that position still remaining.

    Carman
    Eichenberg
    Mayfield
    Cosmi

    I personally prefer Carman to Jenkins, but it's close. It would not shock me if one of those 4 listed above is still available in the mid 3rd round, where the draft pick equity to trade up is minimal.

    Also, I think the Ravens are also looking at RT through the lens of "how much better is _____ than Tyre Phillips". Is Phillips that big of a disaster already to commit another high value pick at that position already? I think they are still high on him, unlike most of you impatient folks here :-)

    Sign Villanueva or Kelly for a year and see if Tyre takes a step forward seems like a totally sensible approach. If he doesn't, try again in the 2022 draft.





  7. #7

    Re: Right tackle?

    Well, some people were making the point last night that you don't spend a 1st rounder on a RT or a C. Now I disagree (Travis Frederick was well worth it to me), but its still a solid point. We could find a legitimate RT in the 3rd or 4th, ala OBJ, and be just fine. Where as finding WR's and OLB/DE's that have huge upside and potential can be harder to find that late in the draft because they're so highly coveted. Personally I thought the ravens were screwed either way. The players I wanted went before they picked and as long as they didn't take a kicker I was going to be ok.





  8. #8
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    Re: Right tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRfan96 View Post
    Well, some people were making the point last night that you don't spend a 1st rounder on a RT or a C. Now I disagree (Travis Frederick was well worth it to me), but its still a solid point. We could find a legitimate RT in the 3rd or 4th, ala OBJ, and be just fine. Where as finding WR's and OLB/DE's that have huge upside and potential can be harder to find that late in the draft because they're so highly coveted. Personally I thought the ravens were screwed either way. The players I wanted went before they picked and as long as they didn't take a kicker I was going to be ok.
    The Ravens last two starting RTs were literally OBJr(3rd round) and Rick Wagner(5th round) They biggest key to both of them playing well was having Marshal next to them. Now Zeitler isn't Yanda, but he is a massive improvement at RG and I think that is being underrated in terms of significance regarding what the Ravens plan to do at RT.





  9. #9

    Re: Right tackle?

    There will also be some veteran OL released after the draft & post June 1. Teams will have to let some guys go to fit the rookies under the cap. I have a hunch we'll take 2 OL in rounds 3-5, and sign 1-2 vet OL....and....may the best man win! Zeitler is a massive upgrade at RG....so, maybe Tyre, w/a year under his belt & some good coaching, will elevate enough to compete w/Villanueva, Kelly, and the draft picks / vet signings. This roster is FAR from being fully constructed. 5 months till it matters for real.





  10. #10
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    Re: Right tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    The Ravens met with Tackles plural. It was Villanueva and Dennis Kelly. It's possible they sign both and let them compete in camp. A free agent RT is clearly part of the plan. They might draft a Tackle at some point too but it's not a hole they expect to definitely fill through the draft.
    I'm not sure we sign both, but if so then Villanueva will likely be the RT starter, but also has LT capability in case Stanley is not 100%. If that scenario happens, even for just a few regular season games, then Kelly is well suited to RT. Again, I'm not sure we can get both, but if so it would be good veteran OT work if we don't draft an OT (or draft one in the lower rounds)... Bc





  11. #11

    Re: Right tackle?

    RT is really not a big area of concern because its still a lot of options. Tyree Phillips, draft, free agency. So it really wasn't a need to draft one is first round. There shouldn't really be a concern over this plus its still players who can play RT in the draft who will be available mid to late rounds.





  12. #12
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    Re: Right tackle?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAVEN2FLY View Post
    RT is really not a big area of concern because its still a lot of options. Tyree Phillips, draft, free agency. So it really wasn't a need to draft one is first round. There shouldn't really be a concern over this plus its still players who can play RT in the draft who will be available mid to late rounds.
    And I will continue to harp on my opinion that it is the least important OLine position for the Ravens offense. On run plays, there is almost always a pull, a TE or a lead block from Ricard. On pass plays, anyone rushing from that side is directly in Lamar's line of vision. Not saying we can put a bum out there, but with Zeitler being able to hold the point of attack and at least establish a pocket, the need for a great player there is diminished. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for whoever the RT is to be a monster, but I think the offense can function quite well of the guy is just solid.





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