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  1. #13

    Re: Working under Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Not until you get rid of skill inequality, work ethic inequality, effort inequality, and inequality in choosing what someone is willing to do for work.


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    Wait... are you suggesting that it's actually FAIR for people to be compensated at different levels?

    I suspect that's a horrifying notion to some.





  2. #14

    Re: Working under Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by owknows View Post
    Wait... are you suggesting that it's actually FAIR for people to be compensated at different levels?

    I suspect that's a horrifying notion to some.
    Fair? I think it’s actually required in a civilized society. Otherwise you end up with a whole bunch of finger painting teachers and no toilet scrubbers, ditch diggers, no one in sales or customer service or...


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  3. #15

    Re: Working under Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Fair? I think it’s actually required in a civilized society. Otherwise you end up with a whole bunch of finger painting teachers and no toilet scrubbers, ditch diggers, no one in sales or customer service or...


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    Socialism is literally the least fair system of government there is. It punishes the highest producing people the most. The very people you want to incentivize and reward to be productive it punishes the most.





  4. #16

    Re: Working under Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by BustOfPallas View Post
    Socialism is literally the least fair system of government there is. It punishes the highest producing people the most. The very people you want to incentivize and reward to be productive it punishes the most.
    The only people that want socialism are lazy, ignorant or corrupt people.

    There is never an example where it works.
    I always wonder why people that claim to want socialism, don’t raise their family that way





  5. #17

    Re: Working under Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by bandc View Post
    One of the myths that I see pop up about living in social democratic countries is that people will want to work less when the government provides more. Just looking at both the Unemployment Rates and Labor Participation Rates between the U.S. and Nordic countries show this to be false.

    U.S. Unemployment: 6.0%
    Nordic Countries: 6.4% - 7.4%

    Labor Force Participation U.S.: ~61%
    Nordic Countries: 71% - 88%

    So the U.S. has the slight edge in unemployment, Nordic countries blow the U.S. out of the water when it comes to labor force participation. I think this follows the studies that have shown time and time again that programs like UBI don't discourage work. Even logically, one would assume that a person receiving a meager UBI would be incentivized to find better work for themselves or even take time to be entrepreneurial (and btw, by the stats, entrepreneurship is at some of it's lowest levels in U.S. history).

    So while you may have whatever criticisms of social democracy you may have, the idea that the people in that system would work less is completely false. Most people find intrinsic meaning in working as a means to an end to provide. I believe it is God-given. That intrinsic feeling doesn't go away because of a social safety net.

    Another interesting thing about these countries is that some of them like Sweden have more billionaires per capita than the United States. And on top of that, the people that became billionaires didn't do it by inheriting wealth, they built companies from the ground up. Companies like H&M, Ikea, Aldi, Lidl, Tetra Pak, etc...

    You won't find articles or stats that show that it's hard to build a business or find work in these countries. The stats back it up all the way. That myth needs to end.
    You can’t compare the Nordic countries to the U.S. Over there, they expect you to work and contribute to society. Not so much here.





  6. #18

    Re: Working under Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by BustOfPallas View Post
    Socialism is literally the least fair system of government there is. It punishes the highest producing people the most. The very people you want to incentivize and reward to be productive it punishes the most.
    This is categorically false: https://www.theatlantic.com/business...artups/541413/

    Stockholm has the second-highest amount of billionaire tech startups per capita behind Silicon Valley in the world. Spotify and a bunch of other companies were founded there. There are also way more startups per capita than here in the U.S.

    No one sees Nordic countries as a place to choke your business dreams. It's just not true whatsoever. The numbers back this up all the way.





  7. #19
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    Re: Working under Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by bandc View Post
    One of the myths that I see pop up about living in social democratic countries is that people will want to work less when the government provides more. Just looking at both the Unemployment Rates and Labor Participation Rates between the U.S. and Nordic countries show this to be false.

    U.S. Unemployment: 6.0%
    Nordic Countries: 6.4% - 7.4%

    Labor Force Participation U.S.: ~61%
    Nordic Countries: 71% - 88%

    So the U.S. has the slight edge in unemployment, Nordic countries blow the U.S. out of the water when it comes to labor force participation. I think this follows the studies that have shown time and time again that programs like UBI don't discourage work. Even logically, one would assume that a person receiving a meager UBI would be incentivized to find better work for themselves or even take time to be entrepreneurial (and btw, by the stats, entrepreneurship is at some of it's lowest levels in U.S. history).

    So while you may have whatever criticisms of social democracy you may have, the idea that the people in that system would work less is completely false. Most people find intrinsic meaning in working as a means to an end to provide. I believe it is God-given. That intrinsic feeling doesn't go away because of a social safety net.

    Another interesting thing about these countries is that some of them like Sweden have more billionaires per capita than the United States. And on top of that, the people that became billionaires didn't do it by inheriting wealth, they built companies from the ground up. Companies like H&M, Ikea, Aldi, Lidl, Tetra Pak, etc...

    You won't find articles or stats that show that it's hard to build a business or find work in these countries. The stats back it up all the way. That myth needs to end.
    You also understand the immigration system there right? Open borders with socialism is like oil and water.. It explains the labor participation rate.





  8. #20
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    Re: Working under Socialism

    Also UBI didn't work in Finland but it'll work in the United States with an open borders. Suuurrree.





  9. #21

    Re: Working under Socialism

    Excellent article with actual facts and examples of how Nordic countries are not socialism

    “If Sanders and Ocasio‐​Cortez really want to turn America into Sweden, what would that look like? For the United States, it would mean, for example:
    1. More free trade
    2. A more deregulated product market
    3. No Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
    4. The abolition of occupational licensing and minimum wage laws
    5. The abolition of taxes on property, gifts, and inheritance
    6. Even after the recent tax cut, America would still have to slightly reduce its corporate tax
    7. America would need to reform Social Security from defined benefits to defined contributions and introduce private accounts
    8. The US would also need to adopt a comprehensive school voucher system where private schools get the same per‐​pupil funding as public ones.”

    https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-p...int-socialist/

    Many of these examples should be a clue to why they are not socialist, and how you have more people working. In the US, we pay people to it work. Other countries don’t do that





  10. #22
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    Re: Working under Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    Excellent article with actual facts and examples of how Nordic countries are not socialism

    “If Sanders and Ocasio‐​Cortez really want to turn America into Sweden, what would that look like? For the United States, it would mean, for example:
    1. More free trade
    2. A more deregulated product market
    3. No Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
    4. The abolition of occupational licensing and minimum wage laws
    5. The abolition of taxes on property, gifts, and inheritance
    6. Even after the recent tax cut, America would still have to slightly reduce its corporate tax
    7. America would need to reform Social Security from defined benefits to defined contributions and introduce private accounts
    8. The US would also need to adopt a comprehensive school voucher system where private schools get the same per‐​pupil funding as public ones.”

    https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-p...int-socialist/

    Many of these examples should be a clue to why they are not socialist, and how you have more people working. In the US, we pay people to it work. Other countries don’t do that
    Its also very interesting to note that the corporate tax rates in norway,sweden and finland were sky high in the socialist era. In the 80's and early 90's it was in the 50% range which was way above the world average. Now they're below the the world average in the very low 20% range. Go figger. Jeez what was Trump doing (lowered it)and now what does stupid in office want to do





  11. #23
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    Re: Working under Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    Excellent article with actual facts and examples of how Nordic countries are not socialism

    “If Sanders and Ocasio‐​Cortez really want to turn America into Sweden, what would that look like? For the United States, it would mean, for example:
    1. More free trade
    2. A more deregulated product market
    3. No Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
    4. The abolition of occupational licensing and minimum wage laws
    5. The abolition of taxes on property, gifts, and inheritance
    6. Even after the recent tax cut, America would still have to slightly reduce its corporate tax
    7. America would need to reform Social Security from defined benefits to defined contributions and introduce private accounts
    8. The US would also need to adopt a comprehensive school voucher system where private schools get the same per‐​pupil funding as public ones.”

    https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-p...int-socialist/

    Many of these examples should be a clue to why they are not socialist, and how you have more people working. In the US, we pay people to it work. Other countries don’t do that
    Just to address #4. Here’s this little tidbit that further explains why this is so.

    https://www.thenewbieguide.se/work/l...labour-unions/


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  12. #24
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    Re: Working under Socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by bandc View Post
    This is categorically false: https://www.theatlantic.com/business...artups/541413/

    Stockholm has the second-highest amount of billionaire tech startups per capita behind Silicon Valley in the world. Spotify and a bunch of other companies were founded there. There are also way more startups per capita than here in the U.S.

    No one sees Nordic countries as a place to choke your business dreams. It's just not true whatsoever. The numbers back this up all the way.
    Right. Cause as it was pointed out earlier... they're not socialist.





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