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  1. #37

    Re: Ravens Retired Numbers

    I personally believe retiring jersey numbers should be reserved for the ultimate players on a league scale only. Michael Jordan, Lebron James are the measuring stick for me, players that can transform a whole franchise and its culture. Ray Lewis would fit into this category, and though I personally prefer Ed Reed as my all time favorite Raven, I believe Ray Lewis was the face of the franchise for so long that it has to be him. Just my two cents lol





  2. #38
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    Re: Ravens Retired Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rygar64 View Post
    But the fact that they just opened the ranges of numbers across positions negates that. With more numbers now available for more position groups, having 5 or 6 retired numbers per team shouldn't really be that much of a stretch.
    It is still ridiculous to retire numbers say, to all HOFers. They already are in the HOF and in the ROH (no way a guy goes into the HOF without being in the ROH). Retiring a number should be for an all-time great, the best at his position ever, or at least arguably so.

    At the time 19 met that qualification. As for Ravens, 52 and 20 are the only others that could be thought of that way (and I am HUGE JO fan).

    Every now and then you hear about a player asking the team and player or family of the retired number guy to use it and NOBODY ever says no because you would have to be a jerk to say no.

    https://www.12news.com/article/sport...d-d0e1315acc40

    So what's the point?

    And only 5-6? There are some wanting to retire that many already and the team is 25 years old. And that is without 8 and 9.





  3. #39

    Re: Ravens Retired Numbers

    Honestly, I was kind of surprised they started putting 27 back out there. I thought theyíd retire that for not so good reasons


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  4. #40
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    Re: Ravens Retired Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    It is still ridiculous to retire numbers say, to all HOFers. They already are in the HOF and in the ROH (no way a guy goes into the HOF without being in the ROH). Retiring a number should be for an all-time great, the best at his position ever, or at least arguably so.

    At the time 19 met that qualification. As for Ravens, 52 and 20 are the only others that could be thought of that way (and I am HUGE JO fan).

    Every now and then you hear about a player asking the team and player or family of the retired number guy to use it and NOBODY ever says no because you would have to be a jerk to say no.

    https://www.12news.com/article/sport...d-d0e1315acc40

    So what's the point?

    And only 5-6? There are some wanting to retire that many already and the team is 25 years old. And that is without 8 and 9.
    I think our short history is actually clouding the argument a bit. It's ridiculously rare to have drafted and developed and gotten super bowls out of 5 or 6 players in such a short amount of time.
    You could absolutely make the argument that every one of the 5 Ravens were the best at their position or at a minimum top 3. I ask myself a simple question...do I honestly believe the Ravens will draft and develop players whose greatness will exceed that of 75,52,20,55 and 73? I don't...so why bother re-issuing them at all? Not to mention the absurd pressure on the new recipient of one of those numbers. Plus added bonus, anyone that owns one of those jerseys can wear it forever without having to explain which #75 or which #20 it is. Also being so young makes my proposal far easier to accomplish than for say a team like the Bears or Packers, but maybe they need a different criteria...but even with 20 HOFers, that still leaves a team 80 numbers it could issue if they chose to retire them all.





  5. #41

    Re: Ravens Retired Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rygar64 View Post
    I think our short history is actually clouding the argument a bit. It's ridiculously rare to have drafted and developed and gotten super bowls out of 5 or 6 players in such a short amount of time.
    You could absolutely make the argument that every one of the 5 Ravens were the best at their position or at a minimum top 3. I ask myself a simple question...do I honestly believe the Ravens will draft and develop players whose greatness will exceed that of 75,52,20,55 and 73? I don't...so why bother re-issuing them at all? Not to mention the absurd pressure on the new recipient of one of those numbers. Plus added bonus, anyone that owns one of those jerseys can wear it forever without having to explain which #75 or which #20 it is. Also being so young makes my proposal far easier to accomplish than for say a team like the Bears or Packers, but maybe they need a different criteria...but even with 20 HOFers, that still leaves a team 80 numbers it could issue if they chose to retire them all.
    The Bears have retired 14 numbers. The Giants 12. Those teams have been around five times longer than the Ravens. Iím not on board with retiring five numbers in our first 25 years. It starts making it less special.

    And honestly, if Bradley Bozeman showed up next year wearing 73, Iíd be about as freaked out as I am seeing Nick Boyle rock Todd Heapís 86. You notice it, but itís not heresy. Heresy would be if you saw Patrick Queen running out of the tunnel in 52. Thatís when you retire a number.

    Incidentally, I donít agree with the HoF criteria. There are other reasons to retire numbers. The Cardinals retired Pat Tillmanís, the Bears retired Brian Piccoloís. There are a whole lot of retired numbers around the league for non-HoFers.
    "Not bad for a running back."





  6. #42
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    Re: Ravens Retired Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    It is still ridiculous to retire numbers say, to all HOFers. They already are in the HOF and in the ROH (no way a guy goes into the HOF without being in the ROH). Retiring a number should be for an all-time great, the best at his position ever, or at least arguably so.

    At the time 19 met that qualification. As for Ravens, 52 and 20 are the only others that could be thought of that way (and I am HUGE JO fan).
    JO is the first draft pick of our organization, ended up in the HOF and was on the NFL 100 All Time team. Not sure what else you'd need him to do to be considered among the best at his position all time. To me Ogden is as much of a no-brainer as Lewis and Reed. I think Yanda and Suggs are more debatable but the big three of 20, 52, 75, are not. Whether they are officially retired or not I would not expect to ever see anyone wear them again.
    back on twitter

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  7. #43
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    Re: Ravens Retired Numbers

    With NFL rosters the size they are it's difficult to retire too many numbers. This isn't baseball with 25-26 players.





  8. #44
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    Re: Ravens Retired Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubbs View Post
    Maybe tangential but I donít like the number change thing. The number conventions makes it much easier to tell whoís who on the field, especially when not watching your ďhome teamĒ
    Ditto. I'm comfortable with the tried and true number conventions. But then I'm old, cantankerous, and set in my ways.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go yell at a cloud.





  9. #45
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    Re: Ravens Retired Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhcforlife View Post
    JO is the first draft pick of our organization, ended up in the HOF and was on the NFL 100 All Time team. Not sure what else you'd need him to do to be considered among the best at his position all time. To me Ogden is as much of a no-brainer as Lewis and Reed. I think Yanda and Suggs are more debatable but the big three of 20, 52, 75, are not. Whether they are officially retired or not I would not expect to ever see anyone wear them again.
    That's kind of what I'm saying though....if the number isn't going to ever be worn by another Ravens player anyway, then might as well make it official.
    To the poster that said that due to our short history, it cheapens it to retire as many numbers...I say the opposite. It cheapens an all-time player's accomplishments to not retire their number due to something as arbitrary as how long the franchise has been around. If the Browns had never moved, and all those players had the same careers and the SB victories would there be any hesitation to retire the numbers then?

    Greatness is Greatness.
    The Jags and Panthers got the expansion teams the year prior and have had the same amount of time to build and accomplish what the Ravens have. If they want to retire Tony Boselli, Julius Peppers and Steve Smith I have no issue with that and those guys are NOT first ballot HOFers-All Time greats except for Peppers. Can't use youth of the franchise as an artificial barrier to celebrating and acknowledging great rare talent.





  10. #46

    Re: Ravens Retired Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhcforlife View Post
    JO is the first draft pick of our organization, ended up in the HOF and was on the NFL 100 All Time team. Not sure what else you'd need him to do to be considered among the best at his position all time. To me Ogden is as much of a no-brainer as Lewis and Reed. I think Yanda and Suggs are more debatable but the big three of 20, 52, 75, are not. Whether they are officially retired or not I would not expect to ever see anyone wear them again.
    Well said. The multiple factors that go in to it are:
    - Longevity
    - Entire career, or nearly entire career, with the team. (Ed's Houston/Jets time means about as much as Unitas' Chargers year.)
    - Performance level (who was it that talked recently about how there is a Hall of Fame within the Hall of Fame? i.e. the best of the best of the best)
    - Intangibles. These can work either way. OJ Simpson does not deserve the honor regardless of his on-field career. And as I mentioned, guys like Brian Piccolo and Pat Tillman have had their numbers retired for reasons apart from what they did between the lines.

    There is some cocktail of those four factors that make the decision. JO is about as high as you can go on the top 3, and the intangibles are all in the positive (e.g. first Raven draft pick.) Unless you want to keep him out for his dancing in those Gebco commercials.
    "Not bad for a running back."





  11. #47
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    Re: Ravens Retired Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rygar64 View Post
    I think our short history is actually clouding the argument a bit. It's ridiculously rare to have drafted and developed and gotten super bowls out of 5 or 6 players in such a short amount of time.
    You could absolutely make the argument that every one of the 5 Ravens were the best at their position or at a minimum top 3.
    Top 3 for how long? Only 2 Ravens can arguably be called top 3 at their position ever.

    And what do you do if you have a run like the Cheatriots, 70s Steelers, or 49ers in the 80s and 90s? How many excellent players were on those multiple winning SB teams?

    I don't see the need, we already have a number of ways to recognize the very best and retiring their numbers has limited possibilities based on the fact that you only have 1-99 to use and then only some numbers at some positions.





  12. #48
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    Re: Ravens Retired Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhcforlife View Post
    JO is the first draft pick of our organization, ended up in the HOF and was on the NFL 100 All Time team. Not sure what else you'd need him to do to be considered among the best at his position all time. To me Ogden is as much of a no-brainer as Lewis and Reed. I think Yanda and Suggs are more debatable but the big three of 20, 52, 75, are not. Whether they are officially retired or not I would not expect to ever see anyone wear them again.
    Not AMONG the best, somebody you can make the case was the best. I think there are a few LTs that are better than JO, if not by much. But if you asked 25 NFL historians who is the best LT in history I wonder if you would get any to say JO over a Munoz or a few others. Maybe I am wrong. JO's short (for an all time LT) career may be hurting him in my mind.





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