Grade the Ravens off-season so far

[ravensfan55]

I picked today to start the thread because we're about a month into free agency. And again, as I said before I was really just trying to gauge people's optimism/pessimism based on the teams moves/lack of moves.

[edromeo]

Overall: B

o Cap management: A
Restructured to create room and got good value for money spent

o Coaching: A
They kept their top coordinators
They lost at RB at WRs but offset and added overall with Tee Martin and Keith Williams.
They will directly help the WRs and passing game

Addressing need areas *they* identified: C+/B-

(+)
-OL was their priority they got a good one in Zietler and currently still have Brown Jr.

- they added at WR to offset Snead we don’t know how they’ll use him yet but IF they use him in the Snead role he’s an upgrade IF they use him outside he’s an upgrade over Boykin

-they took a flier on depth at the 3rd TE-2nd *receiving* TE w/ Oliver who fits the Andrews/Hurst athletic profile

(-)
-they haven’t added to depth to the Edge rusher spot to offset Judon/Yannick but that may come later

They set themselves up decently for their BPA strategy.....although they maybe a little need sensitive to Edge Rusher

[Rygar64]

Are the parameters limited to what they've done since the season officially ended?
Are the Stanley and Humphrey signings to be considered since they are two major pieces that would have been FAs this offseason and the Ravens killed it early?

Liked:
Zeitler signing, Bowser resigning, Wolfe resigning, McPhee resigning, Board resigning, Fort coming back, new coaching additions, 2nd round tender on Gus and Ingram being released

Indifferent:
Judon leaving, Yannick leaving - our sack numbers were pedestrian last year WITH those guys. Logic would dictate that they would be worse now, but we don't know who their replacements will be and how well or poorly they will play. That was the first time we have had 2 "above average" pass rushers on the field since Sizzle left, and I was not impressed with either of them.

Snead vs Watkins - I honestly think it's a wash. Snead is a grittier player and was dependable at finding a hole in the zone for a 3rd down conversion when needed. I think Watkins is a much more talented receiver both with speed and route running, but he is obviously an injury concern. Bottom line is I think he will contribute more when he's on the field. For folks saying they should have just resigned Willie, consider the possibility that he wanted to move on. I think he made it pretty clear that he felt under-utilized here so it was probably for the best that they didn't pay him to stay.

Disliked:
Losing Jihad Ward, cutting Morgan Cox, Not trading Zeus - but maybe they think a better deal can be made on draft night?

To me, that's somewhere between a B and a C.
I don't judge them on the moves that other teams make so whatever CLE or Pitt or whoever is doing has no bearing on the Ravens (premature) grade.

[QtR Nevermore]

I picked today to start the thread because we're about a month into free agency. And again, as I said before I was really just trying to gauge people's optimism/pessimism based on the teams moves/lack of moves.

And it's a good subject for a thread. It seems like people can sometimes get a little defensive of the Ravens when really, it doesn't matter whether we have the complete picture and it wouldn't matter if every single poster gave them an F because we're just talking and our opinions don't matter at all.

[Rygar64]

I picked today to start the thread because we're about a month into free agency. And again, as I said before I was really just trying to gauge people's optimism/pessimism based on the teams moves/lack of moves.

I think most people will take it that way, but a few will see it as another chance at Festivus - An airing of grievances. I can see them standing outside the Castle with the pole screaming "I got a lot of problems with you people!!"

[Shas]

I always root for whatever is best for the team. If Watkins can kill it this year and make predictions look stupid I’ll be more than happy to pay for a nice big extension. I’ve been on this board and others for multiple decades now and I think I’ve proven that I am very opinionated but have no problem posting when I was wrong about those opinions.

Physically Watkins is the player I’m always screaming about getting. He’s got great size and more than enough speed. He looks exactly like like that large outside receiver we desperately need. He just hasn’t played that way. Watkins best years were with the Bills playing for Roman. If ever there was a chance to prove people like me wrong, this is it. I really hope he does.

Just for the record, I wasn't trying to put you in the corner with my question. Being wary of him having one "mirage" season at the risk of underperforming on a long term deal isn't necessarily rooting against your own team.

An extreme example in other sport that we should all be familiar with here in Baltimore might be Chris Davis. A big home run year got him a huge contract that turned out to be a disaster. You could argue that Joe Flacco's big year resulted in a long, expensive contract they regretted.

[Rygar64]

Just for the record, I wasn't trying to put you in the corner with my question. Being wary of him having one "mirage" season at the risk of underperforming on a long term deal isn't necessarily rooting against your own team.

An extreme example in other sport that we should all be familiar with here in Baltimore might be Chris Davis. A big home run year got him a huge contract that turned out to be a disaster. You could argue that Joe Flacco's big year resulted in a long, expensive contract they regretted.

I really really really don't want to derail the thread, but I think that is the biggest example of revisionist history that Ravens fans engage in. It wasn't just the big year, it was the cumulative previous 4 that was a bigger factor. The ridiculous playoff punctuation right before he signed it just makes it easier to remember it that way. If they go back to the playoffs in 2012 and get eliminated in the Mile High Miracle game because that pass gets played better by Raheem Morris, I am 99.999999% sure that Joe gets the extension anyway. The only thing that may have changed was the signing bonus and his brief stint as the top paid QB. But make no mistake about it, with his durability and playoff record at that time...he was getting a new contract. Sorry, just had to say it.

[Shas]

If they go back to the playoffs in 2012 and get eliminated in the Mile High Miracle game because that pass gets played better by Raheem Morris, I am 99.999999% sure that Joe gets the extension anyway.

Maybe so. I'm coming from a post-2011 perspective, not post-2012.

They tried to sign him to a more modest extension after the 2011 season. He turned them down and "betting on himself" undoubtedly earned him more money.

Had he not, he would have been around the same number of years but at a much better value contract from the team perspective. And fan perspective, because given the option, of course we'd rather have any player playing for less money, so there is more to attract and keep more talent intact..

There is no question that Joe's entire 2012 season performance left them no choice but offer him much more than they were offering in 2011.

Keep in mind I referenced his "big year" in 2012. Everything leading up to the MHM was very much part of what forced their hand. It wasn't just happened through the final three games only cemented the deal. That was cherry on top.

Selfishly, it would have been better for Ravens fans if he had signed what was originally offered before his 2012 regular- and post-season cost the team more cap space.

Of course I'm only making an argument about tying up a lot of money on a player who ever quite lived up to it. In Joe's case he would have been the franchise QB for a number of years either way, no doubt.

In Watkins' case, I don't think you can say he will be here long term, for sure, as you could with Joe. Sammy could be one and done. Or he could earn a second contract, in which case we'll see if he really deserves it.

[RAVEN2FLY]

I really really really don't want to derail the thread, but I think that is the biggest example of revisionist history that Ravens fans engage in. It wasn't just the big year, it was the cumulative previous 4 that was a bigger factor. The ridiculous playoff punctuation right before he signed it just makes it easier to remember it that way. If they go back to the playoffs in 2012 and get eliminated in the Mile High Miracle game because that pass gets played better by Raheem Morris, I am 99.999999% sure that Joe gets the extension anyway. The only thing that may have changed was the signing bonus and his brief stint as the top paid QB. But make no mistake about it, with his durability and playoff record at that time...he was getting a new contract. Sorry, just had to say it.

I agree. I think we fall victim into fantasy talk some time not so much reality. Joe Flacco prove himself to be a franchise QB and he was going to get paid regardless at market value. You can't argue chris Davis didn't deserve his contract because he was a really good player beforehand.

But I really can't judge the ravens off season until they season starts. Even after the draft I wouldn't be able to do it. Honestly the ravens improvement is based lamar passing, G-Ro scheme, and playoff winning. That how I will grade the offseasom because non of this matters in nothing changes. You just moving interchangeable parts.

[Shas]

Again, he wasn't going to "be paid" if he signed the 2011 offer. He would have come much more cheaply.

And if he had a crummy 2012 season--bet on himself and lost--I think we can agree he most certainly would not have been paid. They probably think about drafting a QB in 2013 and they don't tie up all that money in Joe.

That said, winning it all in 2012 was certainly the best outcome, even though it meant overpaying Joe for that last contract. And that was GOTA's point about Watkins. Better to have him be really productive this year...and you live with the consequences of overpaying him for a second contract.

Also, just an aside, it was a good thing they didn't need to QB shop in 2013 because it was perhaps the shittiest year in the history of the draft for QBs. To wit, the first five taken were EJ Manuel, Geno Smith , Mike Glennon, Matt Barkley, and Ryan Nassib.

The Ravens wasted the pick anyway, on Matt Elam.

If they had a crystal ball, they would have anticipated that Joe's favorite target, Pitta, would have his hip come unglued in 2013, and so they would have drafted Zach Ertz at 32 instead of Elam (ZE went 35). Or they would have foreseen Ray Rice playing through injury in 2013, and then being waived for off the field stuff after that season, and they could have drafted Le'Veon Bell at 32 (he went 48). Either of those moves may have kept Flacco playing at a high level through most of his final contract in Baltimore.

[boller4president]

I will say for the seventh time now, with the draft you actually know the players they chose. Right now we don't know who they are choosing to replace 14 players. Am I really going down the rabbit hole by saying I'll wait until I see the actual decisions they make...the players they bring in?

I get the feeling this is just a chance to exercise some of your anxieties that they "aren't doing enough"...or "don't want to get better."

You do realize the rest of the AFCN get to draft players too? We pick 27th.

Also while we may know the players we haven't seen them play. I dunno I think it makes sense to treat both as seperate

[Shas]

You do realize Ray Lewis was picked 26. Ed Reed 24. Jarret Johnson 109. Marshal Yanda 86. Za'Darius Smith 122.

You get the point. The other teams in the division all got to pick players those same years too and the Ravens out drafted them.

I can guarantee you that once the season starts there are absolutely zero people working for the Ravens, from Steve Bisciotti on down, who separate whether the players on the field were acquired in free agency, or trades, or the draft, or what round they were drafted in. Good talent is good talent. And bad talent is problematic. It makes absolutely no sense to treat them as separate to me.