Democrats trying to socially engineer the suburbs with "Infrastructure"

[darb72]

If I'm interpreting his argument he's basically saying that person is essentially stealing because they receive the service of the union collectively bargaining on their behalf without paying dues.

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Except a non-union member is NOT given the same benefits as a union employee UNLESS the union has exclusive negotiating rights in that shop.

[darb72]

Ok. But unless I’m reading it wrong ...all that applies to Right to Work states.

Basically the bill seeks to overturn Right to Work. Make every State an At Will state.

Now in RTW states this bill will “force” every employee of a Unionized company to join said Union. But they can leave that company and not pay shit. Go work for a Non Union company.

This bill doesn’t apply to ALL jobs either. Just to the ones that are or become Unionized.


And for the record , while I’m Not a fan of RTW , I’m not a supporter of the Pro -Act either. If ( and I think it is ) RTW is a problem , Federal Government laws aren’t the answer. These states voted and chose to be RTW ....so be it. Any Unions that operate in RTW know this and need to come up with a way to handle it. Put language in the next /future contracts addressing this. Limit the benefits that “Non payers” get from the Union and have the Company offer those benefits. There’s lots of ways around rules , using the Corrupt Fed isn’t the answer.


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So it forces people to join unions. About time you admitted it.

Let's talk more about benefits of joining, which Greg has already alluded to. I have two side jobs, one as an editor basically for prestige and one to keep my toe in the restaurant industry. If, tomorrow, the other kitchen staff decides to unionize, I would lose all my benefits by joining. My pay would have to be cut in half, and I'd lose the free hotel rooms all over the world. Why the hell should I be forced to settle for far less than I'm worth just to appease a bunch of people who aren't as capable?

[blah3]

Not true. Maybe in a company like GM or Ford but not any trade Unions. Or small ( 100 or less ) Teamster Union jobs. Wages and benefits are negotiated by the Union as a package. That package is paid to the Union and the unions distribute the monies for all the benefits. A lot of Trade Unions are “self insured “.

Essentially you don’t work for the company ...you work for the hall. The name on the check just changes as you change companies. Pay and benefits stay the same and are paid through the hall.


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The union is taking part of your ‘salary’ and paying for benefits.

[Vlad the lad]

The union is taking part of your ‘salary’ and paying for benefits.

Good luck trying to explain this. It is like trying to explain how you didn’t get free money from the gov last year when you received a refund at tax time. Trying to explain how they gave the gov a free loan for the year, just blows their mind

[Laxdad24]

So it forces people to join unions. About time you admitted it.

Let's talk more about benefits of joining, which Greg has already alluded to. I have two side jobs, one as an editor basically for prestige and one to keep my toe in the restaurant industry. If, tomorrow, the other kitchen staff decides to unionize, I would lose all my benefits by joining. My pay would have to be cut in half, and I'd lose the free hotel rooms all over the world. Why the hell should I be forced to settle for far less than I'm worth just to appease a bunch of people who aren't as capable?

Now that’s easy. You Sir were lucky enough to be born in the good ole USA. And here we have this thing called Democracy. We decide things my a majority vote. So in your case at said restaurant.....if Jose’ , Maria , Gail and the rest of the Kitchen crew decide that they don’t like the fact that you chef people get treated soo much better ...they reached out to the AFL/CIO and got themselves a Union rep. Now once he/she shows them all the benefits THEY can have after negotiations...they get a vote. If said Union covers your job also then , even if you don’t want one , you get a vote ...and the team with a simple majority wins. If that’s the Union , you guys Unionize and the other staff gets happy?

But the good news is ...this doesn’t mean YOU lose anything. You live in a RTW and unless Pro passes ( it won’t ) you keep whatever you have plus you can have the Union benefits also.

And technically even if you didn’t live in RTW ...the restaurant could classify you as Management and then nothing changes for you at all.


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[blah3]

Now that’s easy. You Sir were lucky enough to be born in the good ole USA. And here we have this thing called Democracy. We decide things my a majority vote. So in your case at said restaurant.....if Jose’ , Maria , Gail and the rest of the Kitchen crew decide that they don’t like the fact that you chef people get treated soo much better ...they reached out to the AFL/CIO and got themselves a Union rep. Now once he/she shows them all the benefits THEY can have after negotiations...they get a vote. If said Union covers your job also then , even if you don’t want one , you get a vote ...and the team with a simple majority wins. If that’s the Union , you guys Unionize and the other staff gets happy?

But the good news is ...this doesn’t mean YOU lose anything. You live in a RTW and unless Pro passes ( it won’t ) you keep whatever you have plus you can have the Union benefits also.

And technically even if you didn’t live in RTW ...the restaurant could classify you as Management and then nothing changes for you at all.


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This is so mind numbingly dense i cant believe it.
Heck you even agree with him on PRO and yet still continue to argue with him because he insulted unions

[Laxdad24]

The union is taking part of your ‘salary’ and paying for benefits.

No. The benefits are part of our package. Just like yours. Difference is we don’t pay out anything out of our check.

Let’s say our total package is $60 an hr.

Let’s say our envelope pay is $35 hr. That’s what’s in our check. The $25 goes towards our benefits. And it gets divided how we vote. We decide how much $ goes to each fund( pension, health, leave, annuity, Pac , etc. ).

Of the $35 hr the only Union deduction from that is dues. Which like I’ve said vary from 1 1/2-2 1/2 times hourly a week Depends on the local and type of Union.

Your package works the same way.

At your job you have a package of say $60.
You make $35 in your check.$25 covers the employer paid benefits, SSI, Workers comp, Unemployment, etc.
then they charge you X amount a week for your part of your health insurance. That comes out of your $35 an hour.


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[Laxdad24]

This is so mind numbingly dense i cant believe it.
Heck you even agree with him on PRO and yet still continue to argue with him because he insulted unions

What do you mean? He asked about losing his “benefits “ with the restaurant if they Unionized. I explained how yes he would under the Pro since he lives in RTW. But I also told him how to get around that and not “lose “ anything.


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[blah3]

No. The benefits are part of our package. Just like yours. Difference is we don’t pay out anything out of our check.

Let’s say our total package is $60 an hr.

Let’s say our envelope pay is $35 hr. That’s what’s in our check. The $25 goes towards our benefits. And it gets divided how we vote. We decide how much $ goes to each fund( pension, health, leave, annuity, Pac , etc. ).

Of the $35 hr the only Union deduction from that is dues. Which like I’ve said vary from 1 1/2-2 1/2 times hourly a week Depends on the local and type of Union.

Your package works the same way.

At your job you have a package of say $60.
You make $35 in your check.$25 covers the employer paid benefits, SSI, Workers comp, Unemployment, etc.
then they charge you X amount a week for your part of your health insurance. That comes out of your $35 an hour.


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You just literally made my point.

[Ortizer]

So it forces people to join unions. About time you admitted it.

Let's talk more about benefits of joining, which Greg has already alluded to. I have two side jobs, one as an editor basically for prestige and one to keep my toe in the restaurant industry. If, tomorrow, the other kitchen staff decides to unionize, I would lose all my benefits by joining. My pay would have to be cut in half, and I'd lose the free hotel rooms all over the world. Why the hell should I be forced to settle for far less than I'm worth just to appease a bunch of people who aren't as capable?

Rebrand as a consultant?

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[Laxdad24]

You just literally made my point.

How do you figure?


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[Vlad the lad]

No. The benefits are part of our package. Just like yours. Difference is we don’t pay out anything out of our check.

Let’s say our total package is $60 an hr.

Let’s say our envelope pay is $35 hr. That’s what’s in our check. The $25 goes towards our benefits. And it gets divided how we vote. We decide how much $ goes to each fund( pension, health, leave, annuity, Pac , etc. ).

Of the $35 hr the only Union deduction from that is dues. Which like I’ve said vary from 1 1/2-2 1/2 times hourly a week Depends on the local and type of Union.

Your package works the same way.

At your job you have a package of say $60.
You make $35 in your check.$25 covers the employer paid benefits, SSI, Workers comp, Unemployment, etc.
then they charge you X amount a week for your part of your health insurance. That comes out of your $35 an hour.


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I can’t tell if you have been brainwashed by union meetings, or if you are just playing ignorant because you feel you have to defend unions

I know you have never owned or managed any companies. But I hope you have some knowledge of paying bills.

Think of an employees worth as a bill. Like a cell bill. You probably pay one bill for your cell. If you look art that bill, the actual cell service might only be 75% of that. You are still paying for the entire bill.

The owners of a company have a budget to pay for an employee.
Let’s say it is 100k.
Some employees are deciding how they want that 100k to be allocated to them. Say 75% in wages and 25% in benefits.
You keep arguing that your package is that 75%. And the other 25% is free.

At the end of the day, the owner is only paying 100k for that employee. Some employees get all 100k, others are only getting 95k and giving 5k to the unions.