Democrats trying to socially engineer the suburbs with "Infrastructure"

**Laxdad24** · 04-20-2021, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Greg

So if 50.1% of the employees vote for a union 100% must join and every single person getting hired after that must also join.

How about I don't join the union and negotiate my own wages and benefits? Suppose I get 97% of what the union does but still come out ahead because the union leeches don't suckle at my paycheck?

First it would have to be 51%. And unless you live and work in a RTW , yes. If said company votes to collective bargain with Union representation by a 51% vote ...any employees and all future employees will have to join.

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**Laxdad24** · 04-20-2021, 07:37 PM

And to address your guys phobia of Dues and what the Union takes out of your check ...I laid it out in my last post to Darb once he actually answered my question about Health Care cost.

That was/is a legit question that I’d like to know. I’ve never had to pay for insurance. But you guys don’t actually read any post that doesn’t serve your agenda and you assume and flat make up shit that people are asking.

I’ll give Vlad one thing. He said it’s a big circle jerk and neither side will concede. He’s 100%. Mostly because you guys don’t wanna have a discussion and hear the other side. You just want to stick your views and that’s it.

Works for me. End of the day none of you guys pays my bills and I’m not sleeping with any of you. So ....Beers to ya.

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**Greg** · 04-20-2021, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Laxdad24

First it would have to be 51%. And unless you live and work in a RTW , yes. If said company votes to collective bargain with Union representation by a 51% vote ...any employees and all future employees will have to join.

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Why should I be bound by a vote that happened before I was even born, possibly? If they voted annually for the union then maybe.

I just like individual liberty to ever buy into the government forcing anything onto any individual.

**Laxdad24** · 04-20-2021, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Greg

Why should I be bound by a vote that happened before I was even born, possibly? If they voted annually for the union then maybe.

I just like individual liberty to ever buy into the government forcing anything onto any individual.

This is the part you guys aren’t hearing or understanding.

The Union workforce in this country ...not counting the Federal Gubment and Post Office ...is about 3%!!

Even in At Will states it’s not like it’s the only game in town. If you wanna work for say ....GM in a non RTW state ...you KNOW their Union before you go! If you wanna build cars and don’t wanna be Union ...work for Toyota or Subaru or any other Foreign Car comp here. Or move to a RTW or vote for your state to be RTW.

No one is forced to join a Union. Period. I don’t know where this idea has ever came from. Maybe back in the 1940’s with the Teamsters. But not in the past 60 yrs has anyone been Strong armed into a Union. It’s been the exact opposite. Even in At Will states like Md ...Teachers don’t have to join the Union.

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**Greg** · 04-20-2021, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by Laxdad24

This is the part you guys aren’t hearing or understanding.

The Union workforce in this country ...not counting the Federal Gubment and Post Office ...is about 3%!!

Even in At Will states it’s not like it’s the only game in town. If you wanna work for say ....GM in a non RTW state ...you KNOW their Union before you go! If you wanna build cars and don’t wanna be Union ...work for Toyota or Subaru or any other Foreign Car comp here. Or move to a RTW or vote for your state to be RTW.

No one is forced to join a Union. Period. I don’t know where this idea has ever came from. Maybe back in the 1940’s with the Teamsters. But not in the past 60 yrs has anyone been Strong armed into a Union. It’s been the exact opposite. Even in At Will states like Md ...Teachers don’t have to join the Union.

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So if a union "lays claim" to a business screw everybody else. This is what you don't get: LIBERTY!

**Laxdad24** · 04-20-2021, 09:36 PM

And hears another thing. You guys keep insisting on the “Liberty” or Freedom to negotiate for your own package in these jobs.

That’s not how it works anywhere in a “factory “ or assembly line type job. Toyota is Non-Union ...all the people on their assembly line have a package that they all make. Period. You can earn performance bonuses, and you may be considered for promotion for extra effort ...but all the line guys basically make the same money. It’s like that in factory type work. Same with like Fed Up. You don’t have to work for UPS and be a Teamster ..you can buy your own route from Fed Up. Make what you can. But there is a ceiling as to what they will pay you.

Even in construction...in a Open Shop you can walk in and negotiate your best deal...but if their ( company) average guy makes say ...$25 hr ...you may get $30. But they are gonna be on you nonstop to earn that $30. And you better have tight lips cause if the other guys find out you make $4+ more than them ...Good luck with getting them to help you out or work for you.

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**Laxdad24** · 04-20-2021, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Greg

So if a union "lays claim" to a business screw everybody else. This is what you don't get: LIBERTY!

I’m not catching what you’re trying to say. I don’t think there is a business in the US that is totally Union. There is always a non Union option.

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**darb72** · 04-21-2021, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by Laxdad24

Ok. Great. Thanks for actually answering.
Now obvious there aren’t any Professor Unions. But I was curious about the cost of benefits since I’ve never paid for them.

So you pay $500 a month. I’m guessing after taxes?
Now typical Union dues are 2 1/2 times your hourly rate a week.
So if your hourly is $30 ..weekly dues out of your check is $45. 45* 4= $180? Usually there is a monthly International Dues charge ...around $50. So $180+ $50= $230. Total a month for dues. Before taxes by the way.

That’s what it “cost “ a Union employee a month for Benefits. That’s health, vision, dental, pension, annuity ,and whatever else is in their package. There’s no extra outa pocket for any of them. The only benefit members pay for outa pocket is a 401K because it’s voluntary.

So using what you pay a month as the average ...a Union member pays half and gets more. So if this is a job to job comparison ...factory A vs factory B since the person has chosen to work at a Unionized shop ...they arnt just getting the better pay , but the better benefits also. Why shouldn’t they pay for them? You pay for yours. Why should these people be any different than you?

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You honestly think this is a salient point? Just at a personal level 2 1/2 times my hourly rate at 40 hours a week would come out much higher than what I pay for family insurance.

Now let's just assume a person doesn't need insurance through their job. Maybe their spouse already has great benefits. Now they're tossing $230 away a month if we follow your logic.

You're basing your entire argument on one flawed example without being able to tell me what benefits a business typically offers their employees.

Now answer my question. If unions are so great, why do you have to force people to join them?

**darb72** · 04-21-2021, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by Laxdad24

This is the part you guys aren’t hearing or understanding.

The Union workforce in this country ...not counting the Federal Gubment and Post Office ...is about 3%!!

Even in At Will states it’s not like it’s the only game in town. If you wanna work for say ....GM in a non RTW state ...you KNOW their Union before you go! If you wanna build cars and don’t wanna be Union ...work for Toyota or Subaru or any other Foreign Car comp here. Or move to a RTW or vote for your state to be RTW.

No one is forced to join a Union. Period. I don’t know where this idea has ever came from. Maybe back in the 1940’s with the Teamsters. But not in the past 60 yrs has anyone been Strong armed into a Union. It’s been the exact opposite. Even in At Will states like Md ...Teachers don’t have to join the Union.

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They are forced to join a union. HB-5 forced people to join unions. The PRO-Act is trying to take that law national.
http://i4aw.org/wp-content/uploads/2...d-2.5.21-3.pdf

**jonboy79** · 04-21-2021, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Laxdad24

Ok. Great. Thanks for actually answering.
Now obvious there aren’t any Professor Unions. But I was curious about the cost of benefits since I’ve never paid for them.

So you pay $500 a month. I’m guessing after taxes?
Now typical Union dues are 2 1/2 times your hourly rate a week.
So if your hourly is $30 ..weekly dues out of your check is $45. 45* 4= $180? Usually there is a monthly International Dues charge ...around $50. So $180+ $50= $230. Total a month for dues. Before taxes by the way.

That’s what it “cost “ a Union employee a month for Benefits. That’s health, vision, dental, pension, annuity ,and whatever else is in their package. There’s no extra outa pocket for any of them. The only benefit members pay for outa pocket is a 401K because it’s voluntary.

So using what you pay a month as the average ...a Union member pays half and gets more. So if this is a job to job comparison ...factory A vs factory B since the person has chosen to work at a Unionized shop ...they arnt just getting the better pay , but the better benefits also. Why shouldn’t they pay for them? You pay for yours. Why should these people be any different than you?

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2.5 or 1.5? You say one and do the math on the other?

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**blah3** · 04-21-2021, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by Greg

So if 50.1% of the employees vote for a union 100% must join and every single person getting hired after that must also join.

How about I don't join the union and negotiate my own wages and benefits? Suppose I get 97% of what the union does but still come out ahead because the union leeches don't suckle at my paycheck?

You wont come out ahead because the union folk wont let you. They will make your job harder and generally miserable if you dobt play ball with them

**blah3** · 04-21-2021, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Laxdad24

Ok. Great. Thanks for actually answering.
Now obvious there aren’t any Professor Unions. But I was curious about the cost of benefits since I’ve never paid for them.

So you pay $500 a month. I’m guessing after taxes?
Now typical Union dues are 2 1/2 times your hourly rate a week.
So if your hourly is $30 ..weekly dues out of your check is $45. 45* 4= $180? Usually there is a monthly International Dues charge ...around $50. So $180+ $50= $230. Total a month for dues. Before taxes by the way.

That’s what it “cost “ a Union employee a month for Benefits. That’s health, vision, dental, pension, annuity ,and whatever else is in their package. There’s no extra outa pocket for any of them. The only benefit members pay for outa pocket is a 401K because it’s voluntary.

So using what you pay a month as the average ...a Union member pays half and gets more. So if this is a job to job comparison ...factory A vs factory B since the person has chosen to work at a Unionized shop ...they arnt just getting the better pay , but the better benefits also. Why shouldn’t they pay for them? You pay for yours. Why should these people be any different than you?

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Do you really think union memebers insurance plans are paid for with union dues? They are paid by the employer.