The double standard is real

**wickedsolo** · 03-17-2021, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

I don't have any. But I DO know Black American LEO's from Baltimore City police, Baltimore County police, MD State troopers and retired FBI. And privately they acknowledge the differences.

But there are so many different factors that can come into play...each situation is different. I'm sure there are plenty of LEO's that see a large black guy and are more frightened than if it were an average sized white guy. I'm sure there are plenty of women LEO's that are equally frightened by large white guys and large black guys. It's a REALLY hard job and every encounter they have could be their last. Also, for every LEO that you've heard say something along those lines to you, there are dozens of other LEO's that would likely say just the opposite.

This is why making blanket statements is a slippery slope and it completely plays into the hands of people that want to govern by feelings, which is a terrible way to create public policy.

**jonboy79** · 03-17-2021, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

I do. But bandc is not one of them. He made the mistake of trying to hold an honest discussion with a group of folk that's not interested in one.

Lmao, BandC has never had an honest discussion on this board and this is clearly not an example of that.

He views everything in life from the perspective of race, nothing honest about that.

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**blah3** · 03-17-2021, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

When did Philando Castille or John Crawford make themselves a threat to the police? And why are police officers the only profession that requires the civilian to behave more professionally than the trained professional?

Castille did not. I dont know the crawford case off hand. Those are in the vast minority. (I also recall one guy getting shot in the back after running away from a cop that would fall into that category). But i would say over 90% of the fatal encounters would not have been fatal if the suspect did not resist or make themselves a threat.

**blah3** · 03-17-2021, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

I don't have any. But I DO know Black American LEO's from Baltimore City police, Baltimore County police, MD State troopers and retired FBI. And privately they acknowledge the differences.

So wouldn’t that indicate something other than race????

**BustOfPallas** · 03-17-2021, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

When did Philando Castille or John Crawford make themselves a threat to the police? And why are police officers the only profession that requires the civilian to behave more professionally than the trained professional?

Terp, I'm glad you brought Castille up. I had a reply to band earlier I never posted mentioning him. I was trying to find common ground so we could all agree on something. I thought that would be helpful. What happened to Castile was 100% not his fault and not justifiable in any way shape or form.

When it comes to police shootings usually there is a perception of threat and sometimes the perception does not match reality when all the facts are at hand.

Case in point. Amber Guyger shooting Botham Jean. The shooting of Tamir Rice. The shooting of Justine Diamond by Mohammed Noor. The commonality is a false perception of a threat due to bad judgement, bad information etc..

The Castile shooting though is mind boggling and impossible to look at. He literally did nothing wrong. There was no threat there. He was cooperating and clearly trying to say, "Hey, I have a gun here and I'm listening and don't want to get shot. Please don't shoot me." Sickening to watch. He was given contradictory information I believe too.

What I want to know about Roof and the scumbag in Atlanta yesterday is the details of how they were captured/brought into custody because I don't know. Was it hands up, compliant, on the ground or knees with hands up etc.. It's hard to make comparisons when you don't have all the details. Those things are relevant.

I do think when a guy is in a car it creates some complications for making an arrest as you have to keep your eyes on their hands at all times and the police can't see what's in the guys lap or on the floor right in front of him etc.. Not impossible to negotiate but different in a way that might cause a green poorly trained barney fife guy to botch things completely.

**bandc** · 03-17-2021, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by BustOfPallas

Terp, I'm glad you brought Castille up. I had a reply to band earlier I never posted mentioning him. I was trying to find common ground so we could all agree on something. I thought that would be helpful. What happened to Castile was 100% not his fault and not justifiable in any way shape or form.

When it comes to police shootings usually there is a perception of threat and sometimes the perception does not match reality when all the facts are at hand.

Case in point. Amber Guyger shooting Botham Jean. The shooting of Tamir Rice. The shooting of Justine Diamond by Mohammed Noor. The commonality is a false perception of a threat due to bad judgement, bad information etc..

The Castile shooting though is mind boggling and impossible to look at. He literally did nothing wrong. There was no threat there. He was cooperating and clearly trying to say, "Hey, I have a gun here and I'm listening and don't want to get shot. Please don't shoot me." Sickening to watch. He was given contradictory information I believe too.

What I want to know about Roof and the scumbag in Atlanta yesterday is the details of how they were captured/brought into custody because I don't know. Was it hands up, compliant, on the ground or knees with hands up etc.. It's hard to make comparisons when you don't have all the details. Those things are relevant.

I do think when a guy is in a car it creates some complications for making an arrest as you have to keep your eyes on their hands at all times and the police can't see what's in the guys lap or on the floor right in front of him etc.. Not impossible to negotiate but different in a way that might cause a green poorly trained barney fife guy to botch things completely.

The police themselves said they had to use a PIT maneuver in order to stop and apprehend him and so at minimum he was trying to flee and not comply.

So if we know he killed 8 ppl and shot 12, he was trying to flee and not obey police orders, why was he not shot on sight? He was clearly a danger to cop lives, no?

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**steelerhater** · 03-17-2021, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by bandc

The police themselves said they had to use a PIT maneuver in order to stop and apprehend him and so at minimum he was trying to flee and not comply.

So if we know he killed 8 ppl and shot 12, he was trying to flee and not obey police orders, why was he not shot on sight? He was clearly a danger to cop lives, no?

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He should’ve been shot on sight. Now, taxpayer money will be wasted keeping this loser alive.

**BustOfPallas** · 03-17-2021, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by bandc

The police themselves said they had to use a PIT maneuver in order to stop and apprehend him and so at minimum he was trying to flee and not comply.

So if we know he killed 8 ppl and shot 12, he was trying to flee and not obey police orders, why was he not shot on sight? He was clearly a danger to cop lives, no?

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Although the PIT maneuver was used I'm reading it was "after a short pursuit" and he was arrested "without incident".

They apparently tracked his cell as his parents tipped them off as to his identity based on surveillance photos maybe. So they knew where he was and who he was. I'm guessing they tracked his cell knew the ID of his car and came up behind his car and spun it and he gave up without any sort of fight. Maybe they turned on their sirens and he didn't pull over right away so they made him stop with PIT.

Also this, " Long did not resist during his arrest in Crisp County, about 150 miles south of Atlanta, police officials said. When investigators interviewed him later, he "made indicators that he has some issues, potentially sexual addiction, and may have frequented some of these places in the past," Reynolds told reporters."

So Incel/weirdo it is.

**BustOfPallas** · 03-17-2021, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by steelerhater

He should’ve been shot on sight. Now, taxpayer money will be wasted keeping this loser alive.

Well him dying would have been ideal financially for taxpayers yes. Maybe more satisfying for the victims as well. He's much more likely to suffer the consequences of his actions though now and his sex addiction problem is likely to take care of itself in a way he probably won't' be happy about.

**Terpsfan82** · 03-17-2021, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by BustOfPallas

Terp, I'm glad you brought Castille up. I had a reply to band earlier I never posted mentioning him. I was trying to find common ground so we could all agree on something. I thought that would be helpful. What happened to Castile was 100% not his fault and not justifiable in any way shape or form.

When it comes to police shootings usually there is a perception of threat and sometimes the perception does not match reality when all the facts are at hand.

Case in point. Amber Guyger shooting Botham Jean. The shooting of Tamir Rice. The shooting of Justine Diamond by Mohammed Noor. The commonality is a false perception of a threat due to bad judgement, bad information etc..

The Castile shooting though is mind boggling and impossible to look at. He literally did nothing wrong. There was no threat there. He was cooperating and clearly trying to say, "Hey, I have a gun here and I'm listening and don't want to get shot. Please don't shoot me." Sickening to watch. He was given contradictory information I believe too.

What I want to know about Roof and the scumbag in Atlanta yesterday is the details of how they were captured/brought into custody because I don't know. Was it hands up, compliant, on the ground or knees with hands up etc.. It's hard to make comparisons when you don't have all the details. Those things are relevant.

I do think when a guy is in a car it creates some complications for making an arrest as you have to keep your eyes on their hands at all times and the police can't see what's in the guys lap or on the floor right in front of him etc.. Not impossible to negotiate but different in a way that might cause a green poorly trained barney fife guy to botch things completely.

Agreed. The Castille tape was heartbreaking to watch. A friend of mine from Arizona got pulled over by a state trooper. He told me the procedure there is to inform the officer that you are carrying a firearm and to fold your hands across the steering wheel. He is rather young (in his early thirties) and this has happened to him twice. He told me he was scared to death both times because he didn't know what was going to happen, despite the fact that he is trying to appear as non-threatening as possible. Why should a law abiding citizen have to fear for his/her life on a routine traffic stop? He was not cited either time, btw.

**Terpsfan82** · 03-17-2021, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

Castille did not. I dont know the crawford case off hand. Those are in the vast minority. (I also recall one guy getting shot in the back after running away from a cop that would fall into that category). But i would say over 90% of the fatal encounters would not have been fatal if the suspect did not resist or make themselves a threat.

John Crawford was browsing in a Wal-Mart gun section when someone called the police, saying he appeared to be starting trouble. The police arrived and shot him on sight, killing him.

**Terpsfan82** · 03-17-2021, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

But there are so many different factors that can come into play...each situation is different. I'm sure there are plenty of LEO's that see a large black guy and are more frightened than if it were an average sized white guy. I'm sure there are plenty of women LEO's that are equally frightened by large white guys and large black guys. It's a REALLY hard job and every encounter they have could be their last. Also, for every LEO that you've heard say something along those lines to you, there are dozens of other LEO's that would likely say just the opposite.

This is why making blanket statements is a slippery slope and it completely plays into the hands of people that want to govern by feelings, which is a terrible way to create public policy.

I have had this discussion a thousand times over with a couple of them. Especially the Baltimore City policeman. On one hand, they play the good soldier, doing their jobs, while acknowledging all of the above. On the other hand, they don't trust the system to be fair to all. Not going to say whether they are justified for feeling that way, but those feelings are real.