Dissension on the team?

[sflegend89]

I think 2019 was mainly poor preparation, mistakes, bad coaching, etc.. I'm thinking we can go far if we're elite up front again on both offense and defense

I'm all for bolstering the OL, it's my #1 offseason priority

But the WR core must be addressed, especially at X receiver, they don't have enough there to punish an 8 man box on the boundary. As long as defenses can entirely focus between the hashes, this offense has a fatal flaw. They can only play within a shrunken field between those hashes in the passing game. We saw them use Ricard in the flat against Tennessee but that's not enough, it's on the WR's to carry that burden.

Some of that is on Lamar, some of that is on the lack of boundary WR talent

[one eyed bird]

Or the QB cant make the throws on the outside to beat 1 on 1 coverage. We are seeing the same thing, 9 defenders in the middle of the field, making any throws inside a tough completion.Hollywood and Boykin have enough talent but DCs leave their corners alone on the outside and defend the middle of the field because they don’t respect Lamars ability to make those throws, and so far they have been right. Those throws should be like taking candy from a baby. You blamee the wr I see it different, the plays are there to be made but they are not making them

[sflegend89]

We were the 11th ranked rushing offense that year and 15th in passing.

The defense was 17th overall and was pretty average most of the year but made plays in the postseason and the passing game got hot. Our identity as an organization was still the same though.. we just didn't have the youth on defense. Remember the 2017 draft we took two guards and the rest of it was defense. Might see similar this upcoming April.

The personnel was not the issue though. Much of that boiled down to Cam Cameron's scheme. We made adjustments under Caldwell that unlocked the receiving core from purgatory.

Right now the personnel is an issue. We don't have an X receiver worthy of the role.

[sflegend89]

Or the QB cant make the throws on the outside to beat 1 on 1 coverage. We are seeing the same thing, 9 defenders in the middle of the field, making any throws inside a tough completion.Hollywood and Boykin have enough talent but DCs leave their corners alone on the outside and defend the middle of the field because they don’t respect Lamars ability to make those throws, and so far they have been right. Those throws should be like taking candy from a baby. You blamee the wr I see it different, the plays are there to be made but they are not making them

Part of the issue is Lamar, I'm not going to absolve him of responsibility. You need to give him more talent in the areas of the field in which he struggles throwing (Outside the hashes). Evaluate the weaknesses and fill them. Lamar needs more potent WR's on the boundary, so be it. You're going to make a ton more progress by giving him a better weapon in that role rather than telling him to just figure it out with Boykin.

They tried Boykin in that spot, they tried Dez. Lamar isn't inept, he just needs extra help there. Considering everything he does as a runner/between the hashes you live with that and accommodate him.

[The Excellector]

I actually want to marry Ortizer’s thoughts with sflegend’s thoughts.

They will throw if they feel it gives them the best chance to win. Which was the case for most of that 2016-2017 period. They were SO bad at running the ball, that they HAD to use the short passing offense as an extension of the run. However, often times, the reason why they try to pass more during the season and it doesn’t work is, because they don’t prioritize it in the off-season. Whether that be Free Agents, scheme, coaching commitment. That’s how you end up with Flacco and Jackson both throwing to jags and Jackson having a period within the season when they ‘tried’ to pass more and it didn’t work. It’s not going to work if you don’t prioritize it in your overall off-season preparation.

[WrongBaldy]

One thing we all agree on is that Lamar saved harbs job lol

[sflegend89]

I actually want to marry Ortizer’s thoughts with sflegend’s thoughts.

They will throw if they feel it gives them the best chance to win. Which was the case for most of that 2016-2017 period. They were SO bad at running the ball, that they HAD to use the short passing offense as an extension of the run. However, often times, the reason why they try to pass more during the season and it doesn’t work is, because they don’t prioritize it in the off-season. Whether that be Free Agents, scheme, coaching commitment. That’s how you end up with Flacco and Jackson both throwing to jags and Jackson having a period within the season when they ‘tried’ to pass more and it didn’t work. It’s not going to work if you don’t prioritize it in your overall off-season preparation.

Definitely this. I give them a pass for 2020 to some extent. They wanted to give Boykin an opportunity at X, they wanted to see him evolve in year 2 and put those physical traits on full display, "load his plate" as Roman put it. But at this point you have to start to acknowledge that he's not the answer. Them signing Dez mid-season was a full acknowledgment of "This role didn't shake out how we thought it would"

It's time to shoot higher there. I'm totally fine with Duvernay getting the green light in the slot if Snead departs. But they must go out and get a proven X receiver and stop rolling the dice outside. Overcompensate. Don't come out of 2021 still wondering what premium WR talent would look like in that role. Lets figure this out now so we can accurately build this roster going forward.

[one eyed bird]

Again I will disagree with you they don’t throw outside for the same reason Tampa doesn’t run the read option, the QB isn’t capable, hell even his own QB coach has said for 3 years running that’s what what they will work on in the off season, well it hasn’t helped, You could have Jerry Rice out there and it wouldn’t matter

Part of the issue is Lamar, I'm not going to absolve him of responsibility. You need to give him more talent in the areas of the field in which he struggles throwing (Outside the hashes). Evaluate the weaknesses and fill them. Lamar needs more potent WR's on the boundary, so be it. You're going to make a ton more progress by giving him a better weapon in that role rather than telling him to just figure it out with Boykin.

They tried Boykin in that spot, they tried Dez. Lamar isn't inept, he just needs extra help there. Considering everything he does as a runner/between the hashes you live with that and accommodate him.

[Shas]

the reason why they try to pass more during the season and it doesn’t work is, because they don’t prioritize it in the off-season..

I agree that they don't prioritize passing. They are a run-first team. Maybe the best that ever was. I don't have a problem with this. I am in favor of it with their current roster.

I do not agree with the implication that they don't work on passing enough to be good at—or they aren't even interested in becoming good at it, as some variations of this theory go—and therefore they are shy about passing during the season. I just don't with this unproven theory.

The reasons their passing game "doesn't work" are multiple, and include issues with pass protection, a QB who has some limitations throwing accurately outside the hashes, and receivers who frankly aren't great. I'm certainly in favor of them working on this and getting better, and hope that new coaches may help make a difference, along with investment in additional pass protectors and receivers.

But I just shake my head at the incessant claims that Harbaugh is afraid, or is too stubborn to work on it, or simple abhors passing the ball.

He chose the scheme that features a strong rushing attack because he thinks they can win with it. He did not choose to avoid, or to be a bad at passing the ball. Although the law of unintended consequences may come into play with this choice, of course.

I realize that this choice drives some people nuts who feel like they have to throw the ball to win. I hear you when you describe the kind of offense you want to root for, and this isn't it. And I accept that.

But I don't accept the silly conspiracy theories about how they don't want to work on being a better passing team, or whatever variation that casts aspersions on Roman and Harbaugh's motivations. I'd prefer just disagreeing on the merits of a run-first versus pass oriented offense, rather than continually having people tell us what these coaches are thinking, or doing in practice, as if they know... as if these theories are fact.

[GOTA]

We just don't have that #1 WR that most QBs need.

Amari Cooper still puts up 92 catches and over 1100 yards despite Dak Prescott playing just 5 games and being stuck with a bunch of scrubs.

Terry McLaurin 87 catches and over 1100 yards with 4 different QBs starting during the season

Michael Thomas in 2019 kept up a record pace for catches even when Brees was out and Bridgewater was in.

The big one, Allen Robinson whose entire career has been spent with mediocre QBs. He's never been able to player with a QB not in the bottom half of the league.

You bring in that type of player and the offense is going to change to incorporate what they can do. It will still be heavily run based but the passing will change. On top of that Hollywood Brown is going to be a lot better because of it. Without that top receiver they have to manufacture passing the same way teams without an elite pass rusher have to manufacture pressure. It can be done but it's the much harder way to do things.

[NOLARavenFAN]

They told a bunch of players and not bringing them back including Bryant, so they are going to run their mouth off...... dumbass Matthew can't keep his head out of Jamison's ass.

Otherwise meaningless.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Cleo&Dilly]

We just don't have that #1 WR that most QBs need.

Amari Cooper still puts up 92 catches and over 1100 yards despite Dak Prescott playing just 5 games and being stuck with a bunch of scrubs.

Terry McLaurin 87 catches and over 1100 yards with 4 different QBs starting during the season

Michael Thomas in 2019 kept up a record pace for catches even when Brees was out and Bridgewater was in.

The big one, Allen Robinson whose entire career has been spent with mediocre QBs. He's never been able to player with a QB not in the bottom half of the league.

You bring in that type of player and the offense is going to change to incorporate what they can do. It will still be heavily run based but the passing will change. On top of that Hollywood Brown is going to be a lot better because of it. Without that top receiver they have to manufacture passing the same way teams without an elite pass rusher have to manufacture pressure. It can be done but it's the much harder way to do things.

NONE of these guys would have over 50 catches in a Harbaugh offense. I wish it were not so - and you'd be absolutely, positively 100% correct were it not for the Harbaugh factor. You can dream all you want but when the head coach and the owner are BFFs - we are all going to have to live with the consequences.